No horn when game ended!! Uggg

[jritchie]

Home 72 Visitors 70, 6 sec to go V1 takes 3 pt shot for the win, misses, V2 rebounds, put back no good, V3 rebounds, I glance at the clock and it reads 1.9 sec, V3 shot is no good, V4 jumps up to tap ball in, me expecting a horn at any time, V4's tap goes in, NO HORN EVER SOUNDED!!!! Home says time expired before tap, visitors of course saying it's good! We got together and talked about it, I told them when the last shot was taken there was 1.9 and then since I was the lead I was watching the action, and said it would of been really close but have no idea without the sound of the horn. Neither partner could not definitely know if it would of sounded either, so we ended up counting the basket because of the unknown, and went to overtime! Then we went to a second overtime, horn did sound to end the first one, crazy stuff. Home team ended up winning by 2, when the visitors 3 to win went in and out at the buzzer that actually sounded this time.

So was this our only option? to count the basket and play overtime.

[swkansasref33]

You don't have definite knowledge either way, so that is a tough one. I would be of the opinion that if you have 2 shots within 1.9 seconds on the clock it would be extremely tough to judge, especially on a tap. Either way someone is going to be unhappy, but I would go with my gut feeling on this one and stick with it. You can always go to the table and ask..... not saying they'll give you a non-biased opinion, but it is an option as they are an extension of the crew. If you go with a good shot, the home coach can't really argue a whole lot as it's his court, his equipment and by that line of thinking, technically his fault (might not tell him that though).

[johnny d]

Fire the clock operator. They either failed to turn the auto horn on or turned it off at some point during the game. Tell game management to take them out back and stone them to death.

[BryanV21]

Since you are to go by the sound of the horn, and their was no horn, then I don't believe you had a choice. The only way you can waive off the basket would be if one of you saw that time had expired before the shot was attempted.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

, but I would go with my gut feeling on this one

2.13 "... unless (the referee) has knowledge to alter the ruling the goal shall count if it was successful ..."

IOW, if you're not sure time has expired, then count the basket.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2.13 "... unless (the referee) has knowledge to alter the ruling the goal shall count if it was successful ..."

IOW, if you're not sure time has expired, then count the basket.

This, need knowledge to not count it. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, you guys did well.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Fire the clock operator. They either failed to turn the auto horn on or turned it off at some point during the game. Tell game management to take them out back and stone them to death.

I second this idea.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Tell game management to take them out back and stone them to death.

And don't stop until you hear the horn.

[BryanV21]

When reading the Officials Manual regarding another situation, I came across this...

In 3.3.6, section E. Final Decision:, it states that "the timer should only be consulted on a last-second tap or try when the red/LED light fails to illuminate or the timer's signal is not heard."

I wouldn't feel right about leaving this call up to the timer, as he/she is sure to have a bias for the home team. Perhaps ask him/her what they saw, but not allow it to directly make the decision.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

When reading the Officials Manual regarding another situation, I came across this...

In 3.3.6, section E. Final Decision:, it states that "the timer should only be consulted on a last-second tap or try when the red/LED light fails to illuminate or the timer's signal is not heard."

I wouldn't feel right about leaving this call up to the timer, as he/she is sure to have a bias for the home team. Perhaps ask him/her what they saw, but not allow it to directly make the decision.

I wouldn't do this within earshot of either coach. Frankly, unless you plan on using this information, I wouldn't ask; as it's only going to inflame the home coach if the timer says it was late.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

When reading the Officials Manual regarding another situation, I came across this...

In 3.3.6, section E. Final Decision:, it states that "the timer should only be consulted on a last-second tap or try when the red/LED light fails to illuminate or the timer's signal is not heard."

I wouldn't feel right about leaving this call up to the timer, as he/she is sure to have a bias for the home team. Perhaps ask him/her what they saw, but not allow it to directly make the decision.

The key word "consulted" has been expressed to mean "asked for further information", and the Referee is still to make the decision. JMHO

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

When reading the Officials Manual regarding another situation, I came across this...

In 3.3.6, section E. Final Decision:, it states that "the timer should only be consulted on a last-second tap or try when the red/LED light fails to illuminate or the timer's signal is not heard."

I wouldn't feel right about leaving this call up to the timer, as he/she is sure to have a bias for the home team. Perhaps ask him/her what they saw, but not allow it to directly make the decision.

The timer is an extension of the officiating crew, however the R has final say.

Also if the timer is biased, they should not be there being they are an extension of the officiating crew.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

The timer is an extension of the officiating crew, however the R has final say.

Also if the timer is biased, they should not be there being they are an extension of the officiating crew.

Ideal world and all that.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Adam

Ideal world and all that.

Very true about that

[jritchie]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions! The Coach from the Home school e'mailed us and apologized for teh incident with the clock and said he has ordered red lights to go on his backboard this morning and a new clock system. Hopefully will be ready for the next game after Christmas!