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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 03:55pm
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By rule a defender cannot turn their shoulder into a ball-handler and still be legal.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 04:16pm
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I'm very confused by the shoulder comments. I don't see B1 turning the shoulder into the offense; I see B1 turning the shoulder in front of A1 and that's where the contact is.

I think the call (no matter which you have) would be the same whether B1 turns or not (in this play).
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 04:20pm
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In the moment I don't have a problem with either call. Both can be easily justified by rule and it would depend on the officials interpretation of the guarding players LGP and positioning on the court. From the angle we have in the video it is made much harder to say for certain.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 04:21pm
Courageous When Prudent
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I'm very confused by the shoulder comments. I don't see B1 turning the shoulder into the offense; I see B1 turning the shoulder in front of A1 and that's where the contact is.

I think the call (no matter which you have) would be the same whether B1 turns or not (in this play).
Turns her shoulder or turns sideways into A1, take your pick. It's what I initially saw in the 12-second full speed clip, and watching in slow motion hasn't changed my opinion. B1 turns into A1. She most definitely did not turn away to absorb contact.
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Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I'm very confused by the shoulder comments. I don't see B1 turning the shoulder into the offense; I see B1 turning the shoulder in front of A1 and that's where the contact is.

I think the call (no matter which you have) would be the same whether B1 turns or not (in this play).

+10,000 and fine Cuban cigar.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 04:54pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
By rule a defender cannot turn their shoulder into a ball-handler and still be legal.

!!!! Please tell me you did not write what I just read!

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 05:29pm
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This is such an easy charge, at worst a no call as the contact is rather weak. Sure the defender could of opened a bit more to the dribbler. One of the core fundamentals in FED is that a a player is entitled to their spot on the floor as long as they got there first and legally.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 05:34pm
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This is such an easy block. The defender is sliding (slide stepping?) down the inside of the lane line. She turns her body and causes the contact with her shoulder and her feet are now over (right foot actually outside) the lane line. She doesn't get to move into the offensive player like that.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 06:14pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
This is such an easy block. The defender is sliding (slide stepping?) down the inside of the lane line. She turns her body and causes the contact with her shoulder and her feet are now over (right foot actually outside) the lane line. She doesn't get to move into the offensive player like that.

She sure does to get to move like that since she has obtained LGP and is allowed to move to maintain it, and she was not moving obliquely into the dribbler when contact occurred.

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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 06:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
She sure does to get to move like that since she has obtained LGP and is allowed to move to maintain it, and she was not moving obliquely into the dribbler when contact occurred.

MTD, Sr.
Yes she did move into the shooter. Was inside the lane and then wasn't. How is that not moving into the shooter and causing the contact?
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 07:24pm
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The defender never left the lane.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:41pm
Courageous When Prudent
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
She sure does to get to move like that since she has obtained LGP and is allowed to move to maintain it, and she was not moving obliquely into the dribbler when contact occurred.

MTD, Sr.
She moved into the offensive player. She was not retreating or moving sideways to maintain LGP at that point.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:53pm
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The Real Question...
Either Camp Block or PC, the LGP question has to be answered.

If you believe block then you believe no LGP

If you believe PC then you believe LGP was obtained.

This discussion about shoulder contact being caused by defensive player and that is why it is a block is a terrible argument. In no way is she moving towards the offensive player, nor is she displacing the offensive player. You are not watching the same clip that is posted in this thread twice. Nor can you argue that by an rule or case play.

So if you believe it to be a block simply state she didn't have LGP and we would argue that if we were on the crew together. But to say that is an easy block call then you are lazily interpreting the rules and listening to the crowd.

It is a difficult call and we have a bad angle to get a real sense of what Lead saw.
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
!!!! Please tell me you did not write what I just read!

MTD, Sr.
Yes I did. Since when can a defender turn their shoulder into an offensive player and still have LGP?
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
!!!! Please tell me you did not write what I just read!

MTD, Sr.
There's nothing wrong with what he said. A defensive player is never allowed to turn into a offensive player.
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