You Decide (Clip)

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Block!!! B1 didn't turn away to absorb contact, B1 turned INTO A1 to create the contact.

Agree.

Defender created the contact with her shoulder.

Block.

[BryanV21]

I definitely don't see the defender gaining LGP. And even if she did get LGP, she turns INTO the shooter. I thought this upon the first viewing, and after the fifth time I still believe it.

[zm1283]

I would have a block in real time and I still have a block after watching it a few times. The defender never gets her feet on the floor facing the offensive player. At :04 in the clip she is facing the sideline with her right shoulder pointed at the dribbler, and she creates the contact with her shoulder as the offensive player gathers to shoot.

[SWKS]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I would have a block in real time and I still have a block after watching it a few times. The defender never gets her feet on the floor facing the offensive player. At :04 in the clip she is facing the sideline with her right shoulder pointed at the dribbler, and she creates the contact with her shoulder as the offensive player gathers to shoot.

Using 4-23-3 as reference.

ART. 3

After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:

a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status.

b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent.

c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, *provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.

d. The guard may raise hands or jump within his/her own vertical plane.

e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.

Look at the 5 second mark...she has obtained LGP by definition. When contact is made she is moving obliquely to maintain postion and away from opponent. Then contact is made by offensive player and defensive player turns to absorb imminent contact.

This is player control by definition. It looks like a block foul but it is a Player Control.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by SWKS

Using 4-23-3 as reference.

ART. 3

After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:

a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status.

b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent.

c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, *provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.

d. The guard may raise hands or jump within his/her own vertical plane.

e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.

Look at the 5 second mark...she has obtained LGP by definition. When contact is made she is moving obliquely to maintain postion and away from opponent. Then contact is made by offensive player and defensive player turns to absorb imminent contact.

This is player control by definition. It looks like a block foul but it is a Player Control.

That says "After LGP is obtained". I'm saying she never gained LGP. At the 5 second mark both of her feet and torso are facing those double doors on the other side of the basket in the corner of the gym, not the opponent.

[ballgame99]

Block, B does not establish LGP and turns her shoulder into shooter creating contact.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SWKS

Using 4-23-3 as reference.
.. When contact is made she is moving obliquely to maintain postion and away from opponent. Then contact is made by offensive player and defensive player turns to absorb imminent contact.

This is player control by definition. It looks like a block foul but it is a Player Control.

In the video I'm watching B1 moves her shoulder into A1, not away from.

[westneat]

I'm calling a charge here. It looks to me like the defender is moving towards the basket while maintaining position in the path of the dribbler. The dribbler just runs directly into her with no attempt at all to maneuver around.

[JetMetFan]

Because I can do this sort of thing...

Three more looks at the play.

*Full speed
*40% speed
*30% speed with freezes at the moments it appears B1 establishes LGP both before and after A1 has the ball.

Let the debate continue! Time for me to get some sleep before my game this afternoon.

[Rich1]

Block all the way! R1 was moving diagonally across the lane and INTO W1's path. She did not establish LGP before the contact so it has to be a block.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

In MTDS I trust.

R1 established LGP - two feet on the floor and the front of her torso facing her opponent - about :04 into the clip. W1 just happened to be about 20 feet away from her at the time.

Don't forget the "in the path" component I learned recently. I don't see the defender in the path until a second or two before contact, and then she is not directly facing the dribbler. The defender is sidestepping the whole way. Additionally, I think I see a bit of forward contact right as the defender stops, which would negate any LGP if she did have it. Offensive player is under control the whole way, block.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

*30% speed with freezes at the moments it appears B1 establishes LGP both before and after A1 has the ball.

Both times you freeze it I don't see the B1 in A1's path at all.

[DRJ1960]

Pc

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Don't forget the "in the path" component I learned recently. I don't see the defender in the path until a second or two before contact, and then she is not directly facing the dribbler. The defender is sidestepping the whole way. Additionally, I think I see a bit of forward contact right as the defender stops, which would negate any LGP if she did have it. Offensive player is under control the whole way, block.



Both times you freeze it I don't see the B1 in A1's path at all.

I interpret "in the path" rather loosely, I guess. The defender is easily between the dribbler and the basket. Would you really expect her to expose the basket to get into the precise path of the dribbler who is avoiding the defender at the moment?

[Rufus]

Block, all day long.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Because I can do this sort of thing...

Three more looks at the play.

*30% speed with freezes at the moments it appears B1 establishes LGP both before and after A1 has the ball.

Let the debate continue! Time for me to get some sleep before my game this afternoon.

When I look at those two freeze frame shots...in the first one the girl eventually charged for the PC does NOT yet have the ball, therefore no LGP...in the second freeze frame the girl in red is NOT facing the player with the ball is NOT, except in only the most liberal definition, between the dribbler and the basket.

IMO...block.