Dating a relative of a coach.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's not about integrity --- perception DOES matter.

Perception does not matter. Fans are going to think they got screwed regardless. Their only point of view is through their team-colored glasses. They don't need a reason or excuse to think you cheated them. Their opinion or perception has no meaning whatsoever.

The opposing coach. If he has dealt with you as an official and if he is professional, he is going to know better. Even if he isn't professional and thinks this is a problem why should that matter to any official. Let him put you on his scratch list. BFD!

Your assignor. Again, if he knows you and has any trust in your ability as an official, he will easily be able to defend you.

Finally, where are you going to draw the line? It is his girlfriend's cousin. Is the line her second cousin, third cousin, his babysitter's brother's best friend's dad? There are other coaches out there that JRut knows better than this coach and has had longer relationships with. Even though he has no known relationship to, should he stop working their games too? We have coaches that come to our referee association meetings. They have been known to go out afterwards and have a few cokes with some of the officials. Maybe I should stop working their games as well.

It is ridiculous. If you give people the chance to come up with reasons to disqualify you they will find a way. The choice is simple. If you know you can be objective, keep the game. If you have concerns, give it back. Don't let simple minded people whose opinion matters little make the choice for you because of some perceived wrong.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by johnny d

The opposing coach. If he has dealt with you as an official and if he is professional, he is going to know better. Even if he isn't professional and thinks this is a problem why should that matter to any official.

This might change things - if I'd worked them before it might matter. However, I'll often go an entire season and only see 1 or 2 coaches more than once.

Finally, where are you going to draw the line?

At whatever point someone might actually know.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Perception does not matter. Fans are going to think they got screwed regardless. Their only point of view is through their team-colored glasses. They don't need a reason or excuse to think you cheated them. Their opinion or perception has no meaning whatsoever.

The opposing coach. If he has dealt with you as an official and if he is professional, he is going to know better. Even if he isn't professional and thinks this is a problem why should that matter to any official. Let him put you on his scratch list. BFD!

Your assignor. Again, if he knows you and has any trust in your ability as an official, he will easily be able to defend you.

Finally, where are you going to draw the line? It is his girlfriend's cousin. Is the line her second cousin, third cousin, his babysitter's brother's best friend's dad? There are other coaches out there that JRut knows better than this coach and has had longer relationships with. Even though he has no known relationship to, should he stop working their games too? We have coaches that come to our referee association meetings. They have been known to go out afterwards and have a few cokes with some of the officials. Maybe I should stop working their games as well.

It is ridiculous. If you give people the chance to come up with reasons to disqualify you they will find a way. The choice is simple. If you know you can be objective, keep the game. If you have concerns, give it back. Don't let simple minded people whose opinion matters little make the choice for you because of some perceived wrong.

I totally agree with you on many levels. I have had post season games with a team from the town I live. And I have had them in every sport too. And every time someone knows I am from that town or live down the street from this school. I would have had another school down the street if it was not for a personal conflict this past November. I would understand if this was my wife or we had kids going to that school, but that is not the case. And she has other family members and those family members have children. I am sure there is going to be other situations that will come up if life happens.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Perception does not matter.

Disagree. Even if it doesn't affect you on the court, you can bet that it could turn into a major headache for your assignor. Sure you only have to call the game, but who gets the phone calls afterward?

I agree with others who have said to inform the assignor of the situation and let him/her decide. I know that I can be impartial, and I know that I can handle the coach while I'm on the court; but if something odd happens and the coach learns or knows of the situation, I've given my assignor a mess that he has to deal with.

[Adam]

Recently we had a situation in a regular season football game. Small town pool of officials, limited numbers and they were maxed out on games. There was a conflict on the game, the assigner knew and did nothing. The game ended up close, with playoff implications. The press got wind of the conflict, and the state had to address it.

Personally, even something so remote, I'd tell the assigner and let him decide. If he thinks it's nothing, so be it; but it's his choice.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Adam

Personally, even something so remote, I'd tell the assigner and let him decide. If he thinks it's nothing, so be it; but it's his choice.

Agreed. Let the assignor know...let him/her make the call. That's just the smart thing to do. It is a gamble otherwise. If I don't inform him, then maybe nothing happens and all is well. Then again, if something blows up and he takes hieat for it...we all know poop flows downhill.

And as far as the "perception does not matter" comment, that's just a ridiculous thing to say. If that is true, why do officials not grow beards? Why do we keep our shoes shiny and clean? Of course perception matters.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Agreed. Let the assignor know...let him/her make the call. That's just the smart thing to do. It is a gamble otherwise. If I don't inform him, then maybe nothing happens and all is well. Then again, if something blows up and he takes hieat for it...we all know poop flows downhill.

And as far as the "perception does not matter" comment, that's just a ridiculous thing to say. If that is true, why do officials not grow beards? Why do we keep our shoes shiny and clean? Of course perception matters.

Officials do not grow beards because we work in a culture that does not allow them most of the time. But there are officials at the high school level that have beards and work games on a regular basis. And not everyone shines shoes because that standard has not been upheld with the lack of all-leather shoes being sold as they once used to be. And not everyone right or wrong has the same perception of what family members and the closeness of that family member and if it would cause a problem. So yes perception matters, but that doe not mean everyone perception matters to everyone. And the answers in many cases show not everyone would be concerned or they would have other problems if they worried about some of these issues.

Peace

[ballgame99]

Pics or GTFO! And dating the cousin of a coach is too far removed IMO. You can always claim ignorance. If it's your wife's cousin, it is a maybe. Its not like you are auditing his financial statements, or are on the jury of his murder trial.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If that is true, why do officials not grow beards?

Let me just jump up on this soap box. Officials do, in fact, grow beards. I've worn a beard for 13 of my 15 years as an official. It has in no way affected my ability to get the games I want. It's a non-issue to everyone who isn't folically challenged.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Let me just jump up on this soap box. Officials do, in fact, grow beards. I've worn a beard for 13 of my 15 years as an official. It has in no way affected my ability to get the games I want. It's a non-issue to everyone who isn't folically challenged.

There is no question they do, but not everyone allows that kind of look whether it is right or wrong. And I think sometimes things like this issue or what is a conflict is often local.

Peace

[zm1283]

Beards are not officially banned around here but it is an unwritten rule that they will hurt you more than help you. Just how it is. I shave every day anyway.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

With all due respect that was not about a conflict of interest or having a relative attending one of the schools.

Peace

I got that, but I was just making reference to the idea of perception that johnny d brought up. I disagree with him that perception does not matter. I think it does matter and I think that the Ed Rush situation illustrates that. What he was actually saying in a meeting was different than what the public perceived. It cost him his job. Whether or not he should have said what he did is not the issue. And in fact what he said isn't the issue. The result of the perception is.

Originally Posted by johnny d

Who is this someone, fans, opposing coach, assignor, players? There is really only one person on this list whose opinion we should even be concerned about and if your assignor doesn't know you well enough or trust your integrity to work the game fairly than you have bigger problems than who your girlfriend is related to.

I do agree with johnny d that fans are going to perceive that we're trying to screw their team, regardless. But why throw gasoline on their fire?

Originally Posted by johnny d

Perception does not matter. Fans are going to think they got screwed regardless. Their only point of view is through their team-colored glasses. They don't need a reason or excuse to think you cheated them. Their opinion or perception has no meaning whatsoever.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rooster

I got that, but I was just making reference to the idea of perception that johnny d brought up. I disagree with him that perception does not matter. I think it does matter and I think that the Ed Rush situation illustrates that. What he was actually saying in a meeting was different than what the public perceived. It cost him his job. Whether or not he should have said what he did is not the issue. And in fact what he said isn't the issue. The result of the perception is.

Perception matters in some things, but not everything. And it certainly does not matter if the powers that be do not care what fans or others uneducated believe. The situation with Ed Rush was a private situation made public. And how many times do we say things in private knowing darn well that if made public it would cause a problem? We are not talking about that here. If someone knows that you are related to someone, that does not mean their concerns are valid. I have first cousins that I am not at all close to and would not do anything to cause a problem for myself professionally.

Peace

[JRutledge]

As I stated before I already knew what I was going to do about this situation, I just wanted to start a conversation about these kinds of issues and wanted to see how far people think you should go to avoid conflicts.

Well I told the tournament director as I was already going to tell him. Actually we had a conversation about this earlier before the schedule for the teams was final and he agreed to move me to an earlier game. I swapped with another official and it was confirmed a day or so after the original conversation.

I also only did this because my girlfriend and this cousin are close. They talk often and do things family related. And for a few of you that are my FB friend, he is all over my page with family photos and comments because of his closeness with my girlfriend. That is the only reason I thought about making this an issue. If they were just cousins and probably did not talk that much it might have been uncomfortable. Not for me, but for those that could have tried to make an issue of of this connection. And I would have been OK if there could be no accommodation, but I did not want anyone to suggest I was favoring him or my talking to him had any association with our relationship. He is a good guy and he did not think it was a big deal, but I had to do what I had to do.

So in the end everything should go smoothly. I just have to get up earlier after a holiday.

Peace