Team control, throw-in, IW

[Sharpshooternes]

Let me just add one more dynamic to this. A has AP throwin, it hits the bottom of the backboard and IW before it is touched. Does A retain the arrow or does it switch?

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Let me just add one more dynamic to this. A has AP throwin, it hits the bottom of the backboard and IW before it is touched. Does A retain the arrow or does it switch?

Your title....alternating possession possession?

[OKREF]

Team control only exists during a throw in for the purposes of administrating a foul, even though this is a poorly worded rule. If the throw in hits the back of the backboard. Team B gets the ball. If this is on an AP throw in, won't the arrow switch, team A looses the arrow because of a violation?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Team control only exists during a throw in for the purposes of administrating a foul, even though this is a poorly worded rule. If the throw in hits the back of the backboard. Team B gets the ball. If this is on an AP throw in, won't the arrow switch, team A looses the arrow because of a violation?

Correct. Throwin violation on A for not throwing it directly onto the court before going OOB.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Let me just add one more dynamic to this. A has AP throwin, it hits the bottom of the backboard and IW before it is touched. Does A retain the arrow or does it switch?

When does the arrow switch? 6-4-4 and 4-42-5

Originally Posted by OKREF

Team control only exists during a throw in for the purposes of administrating a foul, even though this is a poorly worded rule. If the throw in hits the back of the backboard. Team B gets the ball. If this is on an AP throw in, won't the arrow switch, team A looses the arrow because of a violation?

I'm not sure I agree. Do you have a reference? (It's a convenient "shortcut" to remembering the most usual situations, but I don't think it's universal.)

This part is correct. Same references as above, plus 6-4-5

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

When does the arrow switch? 6-4-4 and 4-42-5



I'm not sure I agree. Do you have a reference? (It's a convenient "shortcut" to remembering the most usual situations, but I don't think it's universal.)

This part is correct. Same references as above, plus 6-4-5

From our state director of officiating, thru the NFHS. We have been told this is the interpretation of the NFHS as well.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

When does the arrow switch? 6-4-4 and 4-42-5



I'm not sure I agree. Do you have a reference? (It's a convenient "shortcut" to remembering the most usual situations, but I don't think it's universal.)

This part is correct. Same references as above, plus 6-4-5

Got this from the 2011-12 Rulebook.

2011-12 Rules changes
Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control now exists during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered.

Not saying you're wrong, and I do understand what you're saying. Just know how we have been instructed to apply the rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Got this from the 2011-12 Rulebook.

2011-12 Rules changes
Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control now exists during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered.

Not saying you're wrong, and I do understand what you're saying. Just know how we have been instructed to apply the rule.

"Primarily" <> "only".

My guess is that the play(s) in this thread were not considered when someone decided to give additional guidance. Stil, "when in Rome..."

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Primarily" <> "only".

My guess is that the play(s) in this thread were not considered when someone decided to give additional guidance. Stil, "when in Rome..."

I agree with this. They wanted to address fouls and created more confusion by doing so.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Team control only exists during a throw in for the purposes of administrating a foul, even though this is a poorly worded rule. If the throw in hits the back of the backboard. Team B gets the ball. If this is on an AP throw in, won't the arrow switch, team A looses the arrow because of a violation?

No. This is a false double vowel.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by billyu2

No. This is a false double vowel.

Yea, I know.

[billyu2]

(2010-11) 4.19.7C A1 has the ball for a throw-in. The pass deflects off
A2. As A2 and B2 attempt to retrieve the looose, I mean, loose throw-in pass A2 pushes B2 and is called for a foul. RULING: This is not a team control foul since team control has not been established. (and this would also be true for an AP throw-in) Under the old rule, if an IW occurred after the deflection instead of the foul I don't think there was any other choice but to go to the arrow. 7.5.3 Ruling c. describes an IW while a missed try is in flight but the principle is the same: if there is no team control when the ball becomes dead-go to the arrow. The next year when the TC rule on a throw-in was put in, it was explained that nothing else has changed. As OKREF cited: The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered. My guess as to why the word "primarily" was used was to remind that in certain situations at the start of the game or any OT, the new TC rule would also, obviously, establish "control" for the purpose of setting the arrow under the much older AP rule. IMO, I would go by 4-36-2b, POI: "Play shall be resumed by... a throw-in when the interruption occurred DURING this activity or if a team is entitled to such." If the throw-in has ended, I would go with the arrow. I'm not aware of anything under the old rule or exception in the new rule that says the throw-in team is entitled to the ball when an IW follows a deflected TI pass except through the AP procedure.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by billyu2

IMO, I would go by 4-36-2b, POI: "Play shall be resumed by... a throw-in when the interruption occurred DURING this activity or if a team is entitled to such." If the throw-in has ended, I would go with the arrow. I'm not aware of anything under the old rule or exception in the new rule that says the throw-in team is entitled to the ball when an IW follows a deflected TI pass except through the AP procedure.

An IW ALWAYS goes to POI. You quoted part of it (b), why not also use (a) if it applies instead of using (c)?

Anyway, I think (hope) that all sides of this have been explained, and maybe we'll just have to A2D until / unless the FED issues a clarification.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Let me just add one more dynamic to this. A has AP throwin, it hits the bottom of the backboard and IW before it is touched. Does A retain the arrow or does it switch?

In this case, POI is the AP throw in, so the AP arrow would switch after the second throw in is completed.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

In this case, POI is the AP throw in, so the AP arrow would switch after the second throw in is completed.

Yes