How does your state rank?

[JRutledge]

The system in Illinois is based on a Power Rating system, not a coach's rating system. And right or wrong that system is only a way to objectively compile some numbers and information about what an official has done during their season or career. The system is based on 40 point system which only 5 points are dedicated to coach's ratings. And I can tell you for a fact that officials are observed and evaluated for further playoff advancement. And the same officials working the playoffs is often a myth. Yes, some of the same officials work year after year, but they usually are the top people at least on the boy's side that are consistently doing the bigger games by their conference or tournament assignors. That is not much different than the NCAA level. Watch who works the bigger tournaments or games, chances are they are working deep in the NCAA tournament. Also in Illinois the genders and classes are separated. You get a different rating for each gendar and if you work very little of one class, you are not likely to work playoffs. I live in the Chicago area, I am not likely going to work the smaller classes because we do not have the same access to the amount of smaller schools. And the assignments for the entire state are made by one person per gender as well. And they can consider factors that have nothing to do with the Power Rating like geography, years of experience and what kind of games you work like rivalries or top teams in your area.

Peace

[johnny d]

JRut, I agree with you on most of your points on the system in Illinois. Also, I don't have a dog in this show......I do many more college games now than HS so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether I ever go further in the playoffs than I do now. That being said, it is not a myth that the same guys work every year. They might not be doing supers or going down state, but they continue to work regionals and sectionals. Once you get a full regional you will continue to get a full regional until you are dead or quit officiating. Look at some of the names. There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

JRut, I agree with you on most of your points on the system in Illinois. Also, I don't have a dog in this show......I do many more college games now than HS so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether I ever go further in the playoffs than I do now. That being said, it is not a myth that the same guys work every year. They might not be doing supers or going down state, but they continue to work regionals and sectionals. Once you get a full regional you will continue to get a full regional until you are dead or quit officiating. Look at some of the names. There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

Wow, I remember someone making such a statement about another region of the country.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

On some level, when is that not the case? For one there are also a lot of officials that do nothing to dedicate their careers to any high school, then want someone to give them post season games when they not only did not deserve them or will not make themselves available. A lot of officials want it both ways. They want all the assignments, but if the better offer comes that is where they go. And whether you like it or not, many of those that work years after you think they are in their prime, are wanted by many coaches. I see guys in the college ranks with the same issue. That is why certain big names continued to work and continued to work the Conference Championships in the Major Conferences.

And I know many young guys that always get assignments and get assigned regional championships when they make themselves available. One of my best friends got one last year and he is a young guy in his late 20s and he even moved to this area. I know I have been working playoffs for almost 10 years and I know I am not past my prime. If anything I am better now than I was when I started.

Peace

[johnny d]

I agree with you JRut. The problem is that people want to believe there is a system out there whereby the best officials are working deep into the playoffs. That is simply not the case. That system doesn't exist. So rather than saying that they are trying to get the best officials to work the playoff games, the IHSA and I would imagine any other group or person involved in assigning should just be upfront and admit there are other factors that go into assigning these games rather than just ability. You can ignore it or deny it all you want, but the objective of the IHSA is not to put the best officials on playoff games. Their goal is to put mediocre or better officials on these games and to reward people for years of service. If it was, people like McKenna, mcnellis, okeefe, and others would not being doing the games they are doing and people like your friend (probably works in intramurals and outdoor rec at DePaul), you and others would go further than you have. At the same time, officials need to stop obsessing about ratings and who works what games and just concentrate on working hard and getting better. We as a group also need to realize that no matter who runs the system or what the system is there is always going to be people that think the system isn't working.

[Raymond]

Wow, talk about a 180 degree...SMH

[JRutledge]

Who the best officials are is always going to be subjective. What is the basis for who is the best anyway?

I think a lot of guys who claim they should be at a certain point often are not very deserving or are not as good as they think they are.

And actually I have never heard anyone from the IHSA say that only the best work the playoffs. I have only heard what the criteria is and if you follow the criteria you will be considered. And guys thank that means working college or working other levels. Well it is one thing to work a college game with some very decent athletes in a gym with 10 people watching. It is quite another to work a HS game with 3000 and on TV. As much as I love working college games, I have never been as nervous working any of those games at the NAIA or JUCO level that I am working a big time high school game.

And I did not want to mention names, but a couple of those people you mentioned have not worked any further than me. Actually some of those individuals are not holding me back at all.

Peace

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it is one thing to work a college game with some very decent athletes in a gym with 10 people watching. It is quite another to work a HS game with 3000 and on TV.

This is a load of crap. You are either ready to work the game or not. That might take some training and experience to get to the point where you can handle the on the court stuff. After that there is nothing one can do to practice or simulate working games in front of big crowds other than going out there and doing it. Some people will be able to handle this and others wont, but working more games in front of small crowds isn't going to make you any more prepared to handle this situation when it arises.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is a load of crap. You are either ready to work the game or not. That might take some training and experience to get to the point where you can handle the on the court stuff. After that there is nothing one can do to practice or simulate working games in front of big crowds other than going out there and doing it. Some people will be able to handle this and others wont, but working more games in front of small crowds isn't going to make you any more prepared to handle this situation when it arises.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything in there that would lead one to believe Rut's comments were a load of crap. Was there a point in his post that you're disagreeing with? If so, I don't see it here.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is a load of crap. You are either ready to work the game or not. That might take some training and experience to get to the point where you can handle the on the court stuff. After that there is nothing one can do to practice or simulate working games in front of big crowds other than going out there and doing it. Some people will be able to handle this and others wont, but working more games in front of small crowds isn't going to make you any more prepared to handle this situation when it arises.

Crowd size may/may not make a difference to some but one thing that can have an effect is experience. Or I should say experiences. Five years in I know I couldn't have handled the opportunity I had this past March. Frankly, I wasn't sure I was going to handle it properly once I was there. Those are the times 20+ years of experiences come back to me and remind me why I was selected to do a game in the first place. That's an advantage I'll have over a five-year guy if/when the $%&! hits the fan during a game.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it is one thing to work a college game with some very decent athletes in a gym with 10 people watching. It is quite another to work a HS game with 3000 and on TV.

Actually...I thought this was one of JRut's most insightful posts ever.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it is one thing to work a college game with some very decent athletes in a gym with 10 people watching. It is quite another to work a HS game with 3000 and on TV.

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is a load of crap.

Nope. Not a load of crap at all. Right on the mark. I can tell you from first hand experience there is a WORLD of difference.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it is one thing to work a college game with some very decent athletes in a gym with 10 people watching. It is quite another to work a HS game with 3000 and on TV.

or this:

I'll take my cow town school on a Friday night that seats 500 (only because the fire marshal works the clock). It is 80 degrees in the gym with 90% humidity. By the start of the 4th quarter of JV game the crowd grows exponentially, and is giving those guys all they want. We arrive on the court for the Varsity game and the gym is at capacity. Half of them just spent the last 3 hours across the street at the Legion or VFW hall. That my friend is 90 minutes of pure awesome! You can't just be a good official and handle this environment either.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by j51969

You can't just be a good official and handle this environment either.

Why can't a "good" official work these kinds of games? I like those gyms, too, but typically (here anyway) these are assigned as 2-man games. A good official can handle this easily. That is significantly different than 2 highly ranked 4A schools with thousands of people in the stands.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I agree with you JRut. The problem is that people want to believe there is a system out there whereby the best officials are working deep into the playoffs. That is simply not the case. That system doesn't exist. So rather than saying that they are trying to get the best officials to work the playoff games, the IHSA and I would imagine any other group or person involved in assigning should just be upfront and admit there are other factors that go into assigning these games rather than just ability. You can ignore it or deny it all you want, but the objective of the IHSA is not to put the best officials on playoff games. Their goal is to put mediocre or better officials on these games and to reward people for years of service. If it was, people like McKenna, mcnellis, okeefe, and others would not being doing the games they are doing and people like your friend (probably works in intramurals and outdoor rec at DePaul), you and others would go further than you have. At the same time, officials need to stop obsessing about ratings and who works what games and just concentrate on working hard and getting better. We as a group also need to realize that no matter who runs the system or what the system is there is always going to be people that think the system isn't working.

Best is subjective.

There are so many factors that go into what makes a good official. I'd put play calling as number 1, but there are some intangibles such as game management that are very hard to quantify.

Originally Posted by johnny d

JRut, I agree with you on most of your points on the system in Illinois. Also, I don't have a dog in this show......I do many more college games now than HS so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether I ever go further in the playoffs than I do now. That being said, it is not a myth that the same guys work every year. They might not be doing supers or going down state, but they continue to work regionals and sectionals. Once you get a full regional you will continue to get a full regional until you are dead or quit officiating. Look at some of the names. There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

Why is it discouraging? Because those officials may have to wait a few more years to get their shot at the brass ring?

One of the biggest problems I see are guys who think they should get a state final in their fifth season.