How does your state rank?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The OhioHSAA has a system where the varsity coaches tell the assigners what officials are acceptabale to officiate. Kind of like letting the inmates run the prison. Camron, this is the system that is better than yours, LOL!

MTD, Sr.

Just to expand on Mark's comments, at one time the OHSAA used a system based solely on voting by the coaches and have since changed to a system/formula that takes input from coaches, assignors, AD's and local officials associations. I got a bit of a late start and am now entering my
30th season at age 64. I have been rewarded very well under both systems (for which I am very grateful) basically by doing what BatteryPowered and Scratch85 have suggested and maintaining a positive mental attitude.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You can't assume that all of Texas does the same thing just because of this one alleged situation. Each association (they call them chapters here) in the state is independent in how they assign and rank. Each one covers a certain geographic/district area. Some are very small and some are very big. The association I am a member of happens to be one of the best in the state (based on the state final assignments of the recent past) and every official is evaluated and ranked prior to the season. It's not a perfect system, but it's about as good as any other I've seen. With over 400 members, it's very difficult. The assignor makes it very clear that on any given night he will put the best available officials in the most important games. The word important can be based on different factors for different games.

Didnt mean to sound like this was how it worked for all of Texas. I thought it was kewl his ability could be evaluated so quickly and be given that kind of schedule.

Who ranks them? What are they evaluated on? What do you like and dislike about the system?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BigT

Who ranks them? What are they evaluated on? What do you like and dislike about the system?

There is an evaluation committee that consists of top tier officials from within the chapter. During camp, all the evaluators were there watching games (usually 2 per game) and they had a form they filled out for everyone with basic things they were looking for. We are evaluated on things like appearance, hustle, game management, getting plays right, attitude, etc. At halftime and after each game you would get feedback. All evaluations were looked at for each person. If you didn't go to camp, there were summer tourneys that were used for evaluations. We were all given plenty of opportunities to get evaluated - it's on us to ensure we get looked at.

Here's where it gets iffy - there are 2 people assigned to various groups of officials, based on the first letter of your last name. So A-E will have 2 specific evaluators, F-I will have two others, etc. These people will give out the final rank to their assigned officials. How they determine it is based on general guidelines that they decided upon. Officials in my chapter are not assigned a rank from 1 to 400 - it's not like that. We are all tiered as follows:

100 Can officiate as the crew chief at every level of play
200 Can officiate every level of play as the crew chief with exception of 5A/4A boys
300 Can officiate all levels of play - crew chief up to 3A boys/girls
400 Can officiate up to 3A boys girls - crew chief at the 1A/2A level
500 Can officiate up to 1A/2A level - cannot be a crew chief
600 Can officiate up to JV boys
700 Can officiate up to JV girls
800 Junior high only
900 New official - generally can only officiate 7th grade level with an experienced official
999 Has not been ranked

[BigT]

I would love a lot more states involved with this discussion. How does your state rank referees?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have no idea how, or if, my state ranks officials. I've only seen state observers after the regional play-offs start.

College-wise, I assume the amount of games someone works for a supervisor is indicative of his ranking. Of course I have no way of knowing how many games someone else works unless I scour every box score and keep a running tabulation.

I seem to recall seeing a website a few years ago that could tell you at least where most of the big names were on any given night. Or at least where they had been. Don't recall the site though.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I seem to recall seeing a website a few years ago that could tell you at least where most of the big names were on any given night. Or at least where they had been. Don't recall the site though.

Was it this? College Basketball Referees - StatSheet.com

Indiana does not rank for regular season assignments. Those who have enough qualifying games can apply for the tournament. The state association has a formula which incorporates 50% coaches vote (average rating 0-5 with a multiplier), and 50% things like years licensed, years worked the tournament, number of association meetings attended, etc. The system used to be 100% coaches vote, but now it is a little more balanced.

[JRutledge]

The system in Illinois is based on a Power Rating system, not a coach's rating system. And right or wrong that system is only a way to objectively compile some numbers and information about what an official has done during their season or career. The system is based on 40 point system which only 5 points are dedicated to coach's ratings. And I can tell you for a fact that officials are observed and evaluated for further playoff advancement. And the same officials working the playoffs is often a myth. Yes, some of the same officials work year after year, but they usually are the top people at least on the boy's side that are consistently doing the bigger games by their conference or tournament assignors. That is not much different than the NCAA level. Watch who works the bigger tournaments or games, chances are they are working deep in the NCAA tournament. Also in Illinois the genders and classes are separated. You get a different rating for each gendar and if you work very little of one class, you are not likely to work playoffs. I live in the Chicago area, I am not likely going to work the smaller classes because we do not have the same access to the amount of smaller schools. And the assignments for the entire state are made by one person per gender as well. And they can consider factors that have nothing to do with the Power Rating like geography, years of experience and what kind of games you work like rivalries or top teams in your area.

Peace

[johnny d]

JRut, I agree with you on most of your points on the system in Illinois. Also, I don't have a dog in this show......I do many more college games now than HS so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether I ever go further in the playoffs than I do now. That being said, it is not a myth that the same guys work every year. They might not be doing supers or going down state, but they continue to work regionals and sectionals. Once you get a full regional you will continue to get a full regional until you are dead or quit officiating. Look at some of the names. There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

JRut, I agree with you on most of your points on the system in Illinois. Also, I don't have a dog in this show......I do many more college games now than HS so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether I ever go further in the playoffs than I do now. That being said, it is not a myth that the same guys work every year. They might not be doing supers or going down state, but they continue to work regionals and sectionals. Once you get a full regional you will continue to get a full regional until you are dead or quit officiating. Look at some of the names. There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

Wow, I remember someone making such a statement about another region of the country.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Indiana does not rank for regular season assignments. Those who have enough qualifying games can apply for the tournament. The state association has a formula which incorporates 50% coaches vote (average rating 0-5 with a multiplier), and 50% things like years licensed, years worked the tournament, number of association meetings attended, etc. The system used to be 100% coaches vote, but now it is a little more balanced.

You could have a brand new official do Varsity or JV and a vet doing Freshman?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BigT

You could have a brand new official do Varsity or JV and a vet doing Freshman?

I don't think state rankings have anything to do with the regular season Friday night assignments.

And I doubt there is a state tournament for JV and Freshman ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

There are guys that have been officiating for 25+ years and who are well past their prime still working those rounds of the playoffs. If I was a good, young official hoping to make a run in the state playoffs, it would be discouraging to see that.

On some level, when is that not the case? For one there are also a lot of officials that do nothing to dedicate their careers to any high school, then want someone to give them post season games when they not only did not deserve them or will not make themselves available. A lot of officials want it both ways. They want all the assignments, but if the better offer comes that is where they go. And whether you like it or not, many of those that work years after you think they are in their prime, are wanted by many coaches. I see guys in the college ranks with the same issue. That is why certain big names continued to work and continued to work the Conference Championships in the Major Conferences.

And I know many young guys that always get assignments and get assigned regional championships when they make themselves available. One of my best friends got one last year and he is a young guy in his late 20s and he even moved to this area. I know I have been working playoffs for almost 10 years and I know I am not past my prime. If anything I am better now than I was when I started.

Peace

[johnny d]

I agree with you JRut. The problem is that people want to believe there is a system out there whereby the best officials are working deep into the playoffs. That is simply not the case. That system doesn't exist. So rather than saying that they are trying to get the best officials to work the playoff games, the IHSA and I would imagine any other group or person involved in assigning should just be upfront and admit there are other factors that go into assigning these games rather than just ability. You can ignore it or deny it all you want, but the objective of the IHSA is not to put the best officials on playoff games. Their goal is to put mediocre or better officials on these games and to reward people for years of service. If it was, people like McKenna, mcnellis, okeefe, and others would not being doing the games they are doing and people like your friend (probably works in intramurals and outdoor rec at DePaul), you and others would go further than you have. At the same time, officials need to stop obsessing about ratings and who works what games and just concentrate on working hard and getting better. We as a group also need to realize that no matter who runs the system or what the system is there is always going to be people that think the system isn't working.

[Raymond]

Wow, talk about a 180 degree...SMH