Rank the refs

[ChuckElias]

I recently read a column stating that the NBA has the worst pool of officials among the four major sports leagues. This guy has no idea what he's talking about, but it got me to thinking about comparing the officials of the different leagues. If you have thoughts, and especially if you ref more than one of the "major" sports, maybe you could list how you would rank the officials in each of the leagues, from best to worst.

Without giving it a whole lot of thought, my preliminary ranking would go as follows:

1) NFL - best overall
2) NBA
3) MLB
4) NHL - worst overall

Chuck

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I recently read a column stating that the NBA has the worst pool of officials among the four major sports leagues. This guy has no idea what he's talking about, but it got me to thinking about comparing the officials of the different leagues. If you have thoughts, and especially if you ref more than one of the "major" sports, maybe you could list how you would rank the officials in each of the leagues, from best to worst.

Without giving it a whole lot of thought, my preliminary ranking would go as follows:

1) NFL - best overall
2) NBA
3) MLB
4) NHL - worst overall

Chuck

I agree. However, I would like to point out that the NHL has some of the best officials ever. In any sport. Ray Scapinello. Bill McCreary. Kerry Fraser. And these are just active officials. I actually met McCreary once - at an officials conference in Waterloo, ON. That man knows how to talk to people! The best call I've ever seen in any sport was made by Ray Scapinello three years ago in the playoffs. Trule a defining piece of officiating.

Mike

[paulis]

I was once told by a coach that he ranked me the second best official he had seen all season.......and that everyone else was tied for first!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by paulis
I was once told by a coach that he ranked me the second best official he had seen all season.......and that everyone else was tied for first!

When I was a young official (1st year), JurassicReferee's friend Paul Mitchell told me this. I fell for it HUGE, and all my ref friends laughed. We were at Kelsey's a restaurant chain, much like TGI Friday's, at our year end bash.

At the end of my second year, I improved *alot* and was told the same thing again by the same guy at the same place at the same party. Fell for it again.

I felt humiliated at the point.

Mike

[JRutledge]

I will have to say this, NFL Officials get it right much of the time. But the nature of the game is different than the other sports. Remember they have 7 officials helping each other out. Many times they do not make a call independent of another officials. Unlike the other sports.

I really do not think this is fair to really rank any of this also. I realize that this if for fun sake, but each sport is entirely different. I do not understand most NHL rules and applications and do not have a clue what is a good call or what is a bad one. NHL has rules or penalties like "Interference" and they can call this almost anywhere on the ice. I do not understand why they call it when they do or why they do not call it, but I am sure I am like most fans that do not have a clue, but at least I am smart enough to keep my mouth shut or even complain about bad calls.

I only say this because Hockey is a sport that most of us do not have a clue about. I like the sport and watch the playoffs, but I do not understand many of the rules and what NHL officials are looking for.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I will have to say this, NFL Officials get it right much of the time. But the nature of the game is different than the other sports. Remember they have 7 officials helping each other out. Many times they do not make a call independent of another officials. Unlike the other sports.

I agree that the nature of football is different than that of other sports. (I ref bball and fball.) When a foul happens in football, you can have a few seconds to think about it if you need it. I don't believe the NFL officials really need a few seconds, I do think that they wait to see the entire play. There are always more than one set of eyes on a play. I recently heard Dick Honig speak at a camp, and he re-affirmed to me that one angle looks like a legal play, while another angle does not. Or, both might look illegal, or both look legal. That's why you get 1 flag, 2 flags, or zero flags. (Dick showed an NFL video on pass interference that is the best officiating video I have ever seen.)

I really do not think this is fair to really rank any of this also. I realize that this if for fun sake, but each sport is entirely different. I do not understand most NHL rules and applications

That's because you're not Canadian!

...and do not have a clue what is a good call or what is a bad one. NHL has rules or penalties like "Interference" and they can call this almost anywhere on the ice. I do not understand why they call it when they do or why they do not call it,

You just need to watch more hockey. (Or become Canadian. ) In fact, I once described a bball foul to a coach as "just like a hockey interference call." (It was exactly that - an offender ran right into a defender with both were making cuts in whatever pattern they were doing. The offensive player initiated the contact.) When the coach heard my explanation, he responded, "Ok, thank you," and went on to tell his player to be more careful out there.

but I am sure I am like most fans that do not have a clue, but at least I am smart enough to keep my mouth shut or even complain about bad calls.

I wish more people had this attitude!

I only say this because Hockey is a sport that most of us do not have a clue about.

(Assuming "us" means Americans.) Fox proved this when they thought of their Fox Puck that was designed to help Americans follow the game.

I like the sport and watch the playoffs, but I do not understand many of the rules and what NHL officials are looking for.

NHL Playoffs are by far, the most exciting of all of the 4 major sports' playoffs. Next could be baseball or football. Last is the NBA.

I think the NHL officials are looking for infractions of the rules agreed upon. The referees calls penalties and goals. The linesmen call offsides and icing. I don't recall who calls gloved passes. And I'm certain the NHL has an elastic powers rule, but I don't think a referee will eject a coach without first assessing a bench minor.

..Mike


Oh yeah, Don Cherry calls it like it is!

[Edited by JugglingReferee on May 18th, 2002 at 03:25 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by paulis
I was once told by a coach that he ranked me the second best official he had seen all season.......and that everyone else was tied for first!

There's a Davism you can use in a similar situation. When a coach tells you something like "you are the worst official ever" or "that was the worst officiated game ever", you can reply by telling him that would be impossible. When he looks at you with that vacant howler monkey stare, tell him it would be too much of a coincidence for the worst officiated game ever and the worst coached game ever to have happened in the same game.

Then, just for good measure, puke on his shoes.

[Self]

The problem is not the officials the problem is they are refereeing entertainment and not basketball. The game has become just a show and the officials are just a part of the act. Some are better than others.....

[JRutledge]

Americans do not understand simple fouls and violations in basketball. They diffenently do not understand the thinking behind the "tuck" rule in football. What makes you think most Canadians really understand the rules anymore than Americans? Americans want us to rule intent on things that different officials would always rule if that was the case. Candians surely cannot be better than any stinking American.

Peace

[Tim Roden]

The camp I just got back from had us reffing only one half of a game at a time. After reffing one of the "worst games ever," The next group of officials steps in to call t he second half. I am sitting behind the scorers table and with about four minutes left in the game the coach looks at me and says, "You still did bad, but not nearly as bad as this guy. I hope you aren't hiring him this season." I had to chuckle. The worst official ever is the one on the court when your team is loosing.

[Kelvin green]

Here's my two cents...

There are some differences in officiating the different sports just dut to the nature of the game.

Basketball officials it's easy to see faces. You have 2-3 officials on a 4700 sq ft floor (I have not idea what that is in Canadian Measurements square meters or metric acres or something like that) There is no anonymity...

In baseball the plate umpire is in a mask the other guys are wearing hats, and heck (not to offend the baseball umps) but we as basketball officials could make 95% of the out safe calls, then you have to worry about foul balls, balls and strikes.

In football you got 6-7 guys with only one who is ever on camera announcing the penalty. Everybody else has some pretty good anonymity and besides they do let the play develop, the flag is actully a delayed penalty, and besides you can conference on every penalty.

Hockey they guys wear helemts and shields and there are only 3216 americans who understand the rules. (Besides how hard could it be to officate a fight where hockey breaks out )

What about the pro volleyball refs? the pro lacrosse refs? MLS refs? no one mentioned them....

I dont think they can be compared because the guys at the level we are talking about understand the game, the nuances, etc. (NFL/NHL/NBA/MLB/MLS) They are trained by the legaue and I bet are more consistent across than we are in what we call because their groups are so small, have a ton of video to watch, and get fined or "reprimanded" from the leage if they kick a call.

I think where fans come from is (that if you think about it and this applies to us as well), because of the number of whistles that go off in the game we are perceived to be in the game more and have more of an effect on the outcome of the game. What I think is funny is that you have coaches and fans who scream and yell about officiating but could not pass a test if they had the answers given to them. Heck 50% of the time the foul is away from the ball and the fans arent even watching there

[Sleeper]

Being new to this, I wanted to ask a question. Isn't comparing officials from different sports kind of like comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapefruit, etc? While they are all "officials," there are different rules, crew structures, professional responsiblilites, game speeds and other nuances within each sport that make comparisons difficult. Can this comparison be legitimately made, or is this a sports writer with too much time on his hands?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Sleeper
Isn't comparing officials from different sports kind of like comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapefruit, etc? Can this comparison be legitimately made?

Yes, it probably is comparing apples to oranges. And as Rut pointed out, it's not really fair to compare. But I wasn't looking for "fair"; I was just looking for something fun to think about during the off-season.

In the large sense, it's reasonable to try to compare the one thing that all officials must do: exercise judgment to fairly apply the rules of their game. Officials from each different sport have a different way of doing this. But the bottom line for any crew in any sport is, did they get the calls right?

The reason I ranked NFL referees first is that they get a lot more help from one another than any of the other sports' officials. I think that's a huge help to them. One of the reasons I put MLB umpires lower is that I think, as a body, they are not very consistent with the balls and strikes. That's an incredibly difficult part of the game to call, it's a very important part of the game, and yet they get no help at all from their partners.

So the question was really just trying to generate some discussions of what makes each sport difficult to officiate and how the various officials are able to deal with it.

Chuck

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Sleeper
Being new to this, I wanted to ask a question. Isn't comparing officials from different sports kind of like comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapefruit, etc? While they are all "officials," there are different rules, crew structures, professional responsiblilites, game speeds and other nuances within each sport that make comparisons difficult. Can this comparison be legitimately made, or is this a sports writer with too much time on his hands?

Yes!!!

I do Football, Basketball, and Baseball.

Football I have help all the time. There are not many calls that I am not looking at a similar play with a partner of mine. And most of all, before a penalty is announced we discuss it amongs each other to make sure we get it right. So you are never alone out there. And unless you are the man with the White Hat, no one really knows who you are. At least publicly.

Basketball is the sport where judgement is the most important as an individual. You do have help with partners but I think there are many plays that you are all alone. Or plays that you and only you can make accurately.

Baseball is not as easy as most people think. You have a baseball flying around the diamond and getting out of the way and knowing when you stay in a certain place is key. You cannot call balls and strikes if you are afraid of getting hit. And there are many times you will anyway. Most officials think they could call balls and strikes, but most could not. It is not as easy as many think. Just like basketball there is a reason for everything and you need to have great knowledge of what to do and when.

As an officials that just does these sports, the things you cannot measure are things that most cannot see. And unless you have knowledge of those sports inside and out, you will hardly fully understand the things that make a good official. Just like I am not qualified to judge NHL officials. I do not understand there mechanics and rules to where I could even rank them accurately. I just cannot do that.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Well, I think I may have to shuffle my rankings after watching highlights of the D'backs/Giants game. The umpires awarded a home run on a ball that was easily 3 feet foul. The plate ump really struggled with his ball/strike calls. The Giants were the victims of a "strike-him-out-throw-him-out" double play in which the catcher had to move almost to Barry Bonds' shins to catch the called third strike (low and very inside) and the runner at second beat the throw, although to be fair it was very close.

1) NFL
2) NBA
3) NHL
4) MLB

Anybody else catch the replays on ESPN?

Chuck