Travesty or Travel...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... If this was an NCAA game...

Peace

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

Honestly, Jeff - this is really out of place. On one hand (in one post), you say you don't have to worry about NBA or 3rd grade games, and on the other (in the very next post), you chide the way people who DO work those games handle such games. You can't tell us your opinion doesn't matter because you don't have to walk in these shoes, and then insist on an opinion that those who are walking in those shoes should do things differently.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Honestly, Jeff - this is really out of place. On one hand (in one post), you say you don't have to worry about NBA or 3rd grade games, and on the other (in the very next post), you chide the way people who DO work those games handle such games. You can't tell us your opinion doesn't matter because you don't have to walk in these shoes, and then insist on an opinion that those who are walking in those shoes should do things differently.

It is out of line because someone makes a straw man argument about the NBA to the lowest level?

Sorry, but you lost me there.

And at the HS level and college level, this would not be much of an issue in my experience.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

And that is fine. When you and others work this kind of game you have every right to make that decision. I am honestly not going to care either way, I just will not be doing such a thing. And the younger the kids I am not going to be ultra technical on traveling and all pivot foot movements, but I am not going to just ignore a rule just for one kid as was suggested or asked to the officials in this situation. And I will sleep well at night doing just that.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit)

I guess this made you laugh (not sure why). But I was not the one who invoked the NBA or other levels into this discussion. I just know what I am going to do and not do.

Peace

[j51969]

What an interesting topic and discussion:

This could happen 100 times and be handled differently and correctly each time. Just because no one on the floor is a professional doesn't mean we can't act professionally.

There are certain phrases like, "do something before someone get hurt", "dont cheat the kids", and "the game is for the kids". These are normally used is small weak minded people who would suggest officials have alterior motives. Not by someone looking to achieve something greater than the game.

We all remember J-Mack the autistic kid from NY who hit all those 3 pointers and won an ESPY. It would be interesting to know if his situation was discussed proior to the game. My guess is no it wasn't. But the other team had to know what was going on in the gym. He only went in when his team was up by 20, so the coach was confident he couldn't blow the lead.

He may not have been as disabled as most, but I wonder what those Refs would have done in that situation had there been a minor violation?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is out of line because someone makes a straw man argument about the NBA to the lowest level?

No ... his statement was also meaningless.

And at the HS level and college level, this would not be much of an issue in my experience.

Of course it wouldn't - no one's saying it would.

[JRutledge]

MD,

I do not know what you want me to say. I cannot stand when people try to play, "It is about the kids" card as if that is why we all do this. I do not officiate for the kids, I officiate for the game. I love the game and the kids happened to be there, but not the reason I leave my house. Most of the time I will not see most of the kids ever again. And it would be unethical or unprofessional to have a relationship beyond working the game for the most part. I just think people need to stop saying this as they appear to not know what they really mean when they make this statement.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

MD,

I do not know what you want me to say.

Not really asking you to say anything, tbh. More the opposite, actually.

I cannot stand when people try to play, "It is about the kids" card as if that is why we all do this. I do not officiate for the kids, I officiate for the game.

That's perfectly fine, and completely appropriate at the level you officiate.

Just don't extend that to the levels that OTHER people are working - such as the level discussed in this thread - and then get on people when they DO officiate "for the kids", where it's appropriate. I promise you that if they all called 3rd grade games (or even 7th/8th B-level games) with the same level of scrutiny you do for your games - they would chase away a lot of players - perhaps even some that would have otherwise eventually become good players at your level. And YOUR game would then suffer. Lower level games ARE "for the kids" - and those kids become your players eventually.

[OKREF]

There is a team in my area that has this situation. Every official in our association knows that this team has this kid. EVERY one of us has a big leash when this kid comes in the game. We have never had a conversation with any coach about it, and have never had a problem. People who complain about this, or referee this like it's the NCAA or NBA championship, just don't get it, and you never will. Who cares that a special needs kid in junior high ball gets a break.

[rpirtle]

[QUOTE=RookieDude;911118]I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

I am not an “expert”…I just know what works for me.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

1) Special Player starts running around with the ball...after a time when it starts to feel uncomfortable...look hard for some kind of foul/violation i.e. 3-seconds...."TWEET" other team gets the ball, Special player is not at "fault".

I am not EVER comfortable doing something “tricky” or deceptive…even for a good cause. I prefer calling what was agreed upon in the pre-game meeting with the coaches.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

2) "TWEET"..."grant" a TO request to Coach A. Explain in your pre-game meeting that if the traveling gets too bad..."you are going to want a TO."

If I understand what you’re saying…I would be determining when a timeout is called and granted for Coach A. That has the potential to put me at odds now with BOTH coaches. In addition, doing that could give the appearance that I am no longer an impartial participant.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

3) "TWEET"...inadvertant whistle...Team A gets ball for TI and maybe a new "ball handler".

Again, deceptive (saying whistle was inadvertent and it’s not)…and never a good idea.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

4) He!! with it...just nail the kid with the travel like you would any other 8th grade B player.

Too heartless…

Originally Posted by RookieDude

5) Do it like "Dan" did it.

Sorry, I don’t know who Dan is.

I guess the best way to put it is this. If both coaches can come to an agreement that certain accommodations in how strictly the rules will be enforced...then I will do my best to comply. For the most part I will not be setting aside any rules...nor will I be taking on any of the coaches responsibilities.

It's a balancing act...with no net. And I'm trying to get the coaches and all the kids all to the other side safely..

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

Sorry, I don’t know who Dan is.

Great Feedback...with good justifications.

Sorry, Dan is talking in third person.

Dan...as the OP stated (and without talking to BOTH coaches BEFORE the game) called a travel on the boy after he ran...stopped...ran....stopped...ran...stopped...r an. On the 4th time running without attempting a dribble.

It caught me by surprise. It was a great learning oportunity and one I will pass on to "my" association.

Come up with a plan, including both Coaches, prior to the game.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

For the most part I will not be setting aside any rules...

I re-read your posts and "for the most part" I agree.

[egj13]

When I was in Montana there was a team with a DS player on it. This kid could shoot the lights out...no seriously! Played JV for like 5 years and was a crowd favorite in every small town I officiated him in.

It was never discussed with the coaches or anything but everyone knew that he would get a little leeway. He didn't get alot though, a stutter step here an extra slide there if he couldn't stop. But it was always funny to watch him hit a "J" in some defenders face and then leave his arm in the air....priceless

I remember the first time I saw him, I walk on the court ant the team has 6 kids...one with DS. Needless to say I was initially like WTF? By the end of the year I had seen that team 6 or 7 times and cherished it every time. I watched him drop nine 3's on 9-10 shooting one night...team only had like 40 total and they lost by mercy rule but I tell you what, the place was electric. He was called for travel from time to time and double dribble was automatic but there was never a travesty of the game in any sense.

I love what I do...been doing this for years...but until I started "enjoying" it and letting things like this go, I never knew how much I loved calling games. Some of you need to lighten up and enjoy this stuff as opposed to feeling that it threatens your authority by doing so.

Oh and I also challenge anyone that loves this to get out and officiate a special olympics...it will change you for the better I guarantee.