Travesty or Travel...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I think a lot of officials forget that the game is about the kids.

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

[MD Longhorn]

I probably would have drawn the line about the same as Dan did. I might have tried to get the coach's eye contact after the 2nd blatant ignored travel and try to indicate we were getting near the line though - maybe he would have called a TO.

[rpirtle]

I call a multitude of different levels of ball from "little dribblers" (4th thru 6th grades) to college (NCAA-W Div II & III)...up to semi-professional (ABA). Among the most gratifying and rewarding events I work are the Area & Regional Championships for Special Olympics (Texas).

In these tournaments teams are classified by their skill level...which also could include any physical or mental impairment of individual players. Some divisions mix "Unified" players (referred to by some as "normal"...whatever that is) with the special needs players. As you might guess officials in this type of environment really need the guidance of coaches regarding how the game should be officiated.

I've used my experiences in the above games to develop a method of approaching any game or tournament where the players might not be skilled...or where the skill level of two opponents is not the same. I approach both coaches prior to the game. We go over stuff like: 1.) Specific skills they've been working on during the season (that they want called); 2.) Any special rules they may use (ie; bonus on 10th foul, shoot only 1 FT; etc.).

It works for me.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

I approach both coaches prior to the game.

I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

1) Special Player starts running around with the ball...after a time when it starts to feel uncomfortable...look hard for some kind of foul/violation i.e. 3-seconds...."TWEET" other team gets the ball, Special player is not at "fault".

2) "TWEET"..."grant" a TO request to Coach A. Explain in your pre-game meeting that if the traveling gets too bad..."you are going to want a TO."

3) "TWEET"...inadvertant whistle...Team A gets ball for TI and maybe a new "ball handler".

4) He!! with it...just nail the kid with the travel like you would any other 8th grade B player.

5) Do it like "Dan" did it.

(I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these "ideas"...they were just thrown out there.)

It's interesting...this OP has actually caused a lot of discussion around here...even to the point that some of the football officials have heard about it and talked about it during post-game refreshments.

Again, I like the idea of talking to BOTH Coaches BEFORE the game and get these things ironed out.

[OKREF]

There is a team in my area that has this situation. Every official in our association knows that this team has this kid. EVERY one of us has a big leash when this kid comes in the game. We have never had a conversation with any coach about it, and have never had a problem. People who complain about this, or referee this like it's the NCAA or NBA championship, just don't get it, and you never will. Who cares that a special needs kid in junior high ball gets a break.

[rpirtle]

[QUOTE=RookieDude;911118]I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

I am not an “expert”…I just know what works for me.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

1) Special Player starts running around with the ball...after a time when it starts to feel uncomfortable...look hard for some kind of foul/violation i.e. 3-seconds...."TWEET" other team gets the ball, Special player is not at "fault".

I am not EVER comfortable doing something “tricky” or deceptive…even for a good cause. I prefer calling what was agreed upon in the pre-game meeting with the coaches.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

2) "TWEET"..."grant" a TO request to Coach A. Explain in your pre-game meeting that if the traveling gets too bad..."you are going to want a TO."

If I understand what you’re saying…I would be determining when a timeout is called and granted for Coach A. That has the potential to put me at odds now with BOTH coaches. In addition, doing that could give the appearance that I am no longer an impartial participant.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

3) "TWEET"...inadvertant whistle...Team A gets ball for TI and maybe a new "ball handler".

Again, deceptive (saying whistle was inadvertent and it’s not)…and never a good idea.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

4) He!! with it...just nail the kid with the travel like you would any other 8th grade B player.

Too heartless…

Originally Posted by RookieDude

5) Do it like "Dan" did it.

Sorry, I don’t know who Dan is.

I guess the best way to put it is this. If both coaches can come to an agreement that certain accommodations in how strictly the rules will be enforced...then I will do my best to comply. For the most part I will not be setting aside any rules...nor will I be taking on any of the coaches responsibilities.

It's a balancing act...with no net. And I'm trying to get the coaches and all the kids all to the other side safely..

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

Sorry, I don’t know who Dan is.

Great Feedback...with good justifications.

Sorry, Dan is talking in third person.

Dan...as the OP stated (and without talking to BOTH coaches BEFORE the game) called a travel on the boy after he ran...stopped...ran....stopped...ran...stopped...r an. On the 4th time running without attempting a dribble.

It caught me by surprise. It was a great learning oportunity and one I will pass on to "my" association.

Come up with a plan, including both Coaches, prior to the game.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

For the most part I will not be setting aside any rules...

I re-read your posts and "for the most part" I agree.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

And that is fine. When you and others work this kind of game you have every right to make that decision. I am honestly not going to care either way, I just will not be doing such a thing. And the younger the kids I am not going to be ultra technical on traveling and all pivot foot movements, but I am not going to just ignore a rule just for one kid as was suggested or asked to the officials in this situation. And I will sleep well at night doing just that.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... If this was an NCAA game...

Peace

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit)

I guess this made you laugh (not sure why). But I was not the one who invoked the NBA or other levels into this discussion. I just know what I am going to do and not do.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

Honestly, Jeff - this is really out of place. On one hand (in one post), you say you don't have to worry about NBA or 3rd grade games, and on the other (in the very next post), you chide the way people who DO work those games handle such games. You can't tell us your opinion doesn't matter because you don't have to walk in these shoes, and then insist on an opinion that those who are walking in those shoes should do things differently.