Travesty or Travel...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

But even if I do accept the whole "protect the integrity of the game" thing, then please explain to me how allowing that kid with Downs Syndrome to get away with traveling hurts the integrity of the game.

98% of the time it doesn't. What I'm saying is if the outcome of the game is in doubt and this player is on the court, you may be asked to make a decision. Will you call a travel on him just like anybody else, or will you allow him to climb a ladder and score the winning basket. Hopefully somewhere in between, but be aware of the potential to have to draw a line.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

98% of the time it doesn't. What I'm saying is if the outcome of the game is in doubt and this player is on the court, you may be asked to make a decision. Will you call a travel on him just like anybody else, or will you allow him to climb a ladder and score the winning basket. Hopefully somewhere in between, but be aware of the potential to have to draw a line.

I'm looking at the situation described in the OP.

If you want to change the situation, then fine. The way I do things may change, but the bottom line remains the same... what's best for those kids? That may be calling the travel, but it also may be ignoring it and smiling along with the coach, his players, and hopefully everybody else in the gym.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I am all for cutting a player some slack, whether for a handicap or simply lack of talent, but not at the expense of the outcome of the game.

I hear you JAR...and I appreciate you input...

But, if I'm going to error...in this case...I'm going to error on the side of the handicaped kid instead of the outcome of an 8th grade B game.

Again...the coaches can complain all they want...but, this stuff is going to be MOSTLY worked out before the game even begins. If some Middle School Coach wants to give me grief...I'll put on my big boy ref pants and handle it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

But, if I'm going to error...in this case...I'm going to error on the side of the handicaped kid instead of the outcome of an 8th grade B game.

Yep.

[fullor30]

Your crew? Do you do three man grammar school where you live?

Honestly, common sense in these situations. People either get it or they don't.

As Bob said, he shuffles feet, nothing starts, he's heading for concession stand you have to call something not to make a mockery of game.

Love your description how you 'nailed' him with a travel call. Attaboy

[BatteryPowered]

Honestly...I see post from some on this discussion that should never work a middle school game (never mind the problem with them getting a heart and grasp of common sense). This didn't happen in the finals of the NCAA tournament on national television. It is a flippin' middle school GAME for crying out loud.

I'm giving the kid some slack...especially since in the OP his team is still LOSING. If the opposing coach starts chirping about it he gets one warnings (maybe) before I nail him with a T...trust me, I will find a reason.

If my partner doesn't like it, he can make the calls or block me in the future. If the coach wants to scratch me from all future contest...be my guest, I don't do this for the money or prestige.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Your crew? Do you do three man grammar school where you live?

Honestly, common sense in these situations. People either get it or they don't.

As Bob said, he shuffles feet, nothing starts, he's heading for concession stand you have to call something not to make a mockery of game.

Love your description how you 'nailed' him with a travel call. Attaboy

Thanks for your input...

My crew? Yeah...you know...like "my partners".

We use the oportunity to do three "man" training when doing M.S. or "grammer" school as you put it.

Yes...I "nailed him with the travel call". I was being facitious.

Attaboy?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I think a lot of officials forget that the game is about the kids.

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

[MD Longhorn]

I probably would have drawn the line about the same as Dan did. I might have tried to get the coach's eye contact after the 2nd blatant ignored travel and try to indicate we were getting near the line though - maybe he would have called a TO.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

So, you're saying we should equally enforce all rules form NBA to 3rd grade beginners?

[rpirtle]

I call a multitude of different levels of ball from "little dribblers" (4th thru 6th grades) to college (NCAA-W Div II & III)...up to semi-professional (ABA). Among the most gratifying and rewarding events I work are the Area & Regional Championships for Special Olympics (Texas).

In these tournaments teams are classified by their skill level...which also could include any physical or mental impairment of individual players. Some divisions mix "Unified" players (referred to by some as "normal"...whatever that is) with the special needs players. As you might guess officials in this type of environment really need the guidance of coaches regarding how the game should be officiated.

I've used my experiences in the above games to develop a method of approaching any game or tournament where the players might not be skilled...or where the skill level of two opponents is not the same. I approach both coaches prior to the game. We go over stuff like: 1.) Specific skills they've been working on during the season (that they want called); 2.) Any special rules they may use (ie; bonus on 10th foul, shoot only 1 FT; etc.).

It works for me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you're saying we should equally enforce all rules form NBA to 3rd grade beginners?

The NBA has different rules then the NCAA for a reason. And the NCAA has different rules then the NF for a similar reason.

I do not work the NBA or 3rd grade beginners, so this is not a dilemma for me.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

I approach both coaches prior to the game.

I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

1) Special Player starts running around with the ball...after a time when it starts to feel uncomfortable...look hard for some kind of foul/violation i.e. 3-seconds...."TWEET" other team gets the ball, Special player is not at "fault".

2) "TWEET"..."grant" a TO request to Coach A. Explain in your pre-game meeting that if the traveling gets too bad..."you are going to want a TO."

3) "TWEET"...inadvertant whistle...Team A gets ball for TI and maybe a new "ball handler".

4) He!! with it...just nail the kid with the travel like you would any other 8th grade B player.

5) Do it like "Dan" did it.

(I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these "ideas"...they were just thrown out there.)

It's interesting...this OP has actually caused a lot of discussion around here...even to the point that some of the football officials have heard about it and talked about it during post-game refreshments.

Again, I like the idea of talking to BOTH Coaches BEFORE the game and get these things ironed out.