Logo On Jersey

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I have to be able to explain what I've done on the floor against the rule book, not the case book. I'm more than comfortable telling someone that the case book is wrong.

I'm actually more comfortable telling a coach, or a fellow official, that the case book is the "bottom" line in regard to an interpretation. Casebook plays are much more "specific" then the generic rules in the rulebook.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm actually more comfortable telling a coach, or a fellow official, that the case book is the "bottom" line in regard to an interpretation. Casebook plays are much more "specific" then the generic rules in the rulebook.

This seems absolutely asinine to me. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

This seems absolutely asinine to me. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Casebook plays are usually about a very specific situation, with a very clear interpretation for that very specific situation. There are some casebook plays (going the wrong way after a jump ball) that have interpretations that one would not normally be able to came up with by simply applying the rule, and the penalty.

With the exception of a casebook plays that may have became out of date, that may not have kept up with rule changes due to an oversight by the editor, I'm going with the casebook interpretation almost every time.

[JetMetFan]

NOTE: THE "CLARIFICATION" IS BEING CLARIFIED!!!


From Peter Webb, IAABO Coordinator of Interpreters & Trainers:

"By rule, player A-6 simply can not participate/play while wearing excessive logos on jersey (3.5). Just as a player A-5 with a jersey not tucked into pants (3.3.5), can not participate/play and is directed to leave the game. THERE IS NO PENALTY - simply not allowed entry or directed to return to the bench. Until the excessive logos are removed or the jersey is worn properly, the team member can not return as a player.

Technical Foul would be the penalty for 3.2.2 c, d, e, & 10.1.2 Penalty
Technical Foul would be the penalty for illegal number 3.4 d

The Technical Foul penalty regarding uniforms primarily has to do with numbers and prior to the game. Additionally, a player wearing an illegal number is charged with a Technical Foul, but can play while wearing the number. A team member with excessive logos or over sized logos on jersey can not play.

I hope the above response is of help. I will make a note to bring the matter to the attention of the NFHS Rules Editor next spring. Some editing might help the clarity."

[APG]

The bit about a player being charged with a technical foul for an illegal number is wrong...it's a direct to the coach...just like any other infraction for an illegal jersey (save for this recent interpretation).

[Camron Rust]

I'm sorry, but Peter Webb is just plain wrong.

The NFHS rulebook indicates that the penalty for illegal jersey and pants, as well as numbers, is a technical foul charged to the head coach. See 10-5-4 and the related penalty as well as the Technical Foul Summary after Rule 10.

The rule he cited has to do with illegal items such as undershirts, compression shorts/sleeves, etc. but not the uniform jersey or shorts. A player wearing one of those non-uniform items that is not legal may not play with them. But that rule does not extend to the uniform items.

Our state interpreter has spoken on the matter previously too. In fact, they changed this rule just 2-3 years ago to be only 1 T for any number of infractions and also changed it to apply to the head coach an not just the team. They covered it in the rule change discussions at the time. If you were not going to let a player participate with an illegal uniform, why would you charge the T at all?

[BillyMac]

This (below) is from a draft of an article that I was preparing to write a few years ago on Administrative Infraction Technical Foul Penalties. Of course, I can't be used as a source citation, but I did put several hours of research into the article.

Technical fouls for illegal uniforms (including illegal numbers) are not charged to the team, but are charged directly to the head coach. If a team member participates as a player while wearing an illegal uniform, then a direct technical foul is charged to the head coach, who will lose the coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This infraction is penalized when discovered, and the team member with the illegal uniform may participate without further penalty and is not required to change the number. A maximum of one technical foul shall be charged directly to the head coach regardless of the number of offenders.

Note that I said "preparing". I never published it, mostly because of some IAABO interpretation problems, like the issue that we are discussing here in this Forum thread.

10-5-4: The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate while
wearing an illegal uniform (see 3-4).

PENALTY: (Section 5) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The
foul is charged directly to the head coach. (Art. 4) Penalized when discovered. (Arts. 4, 5) Only one
technical foul is charged regardless of the number of offenders.

10.5.4 SITUATION B: Team A is wearing jerseys that have a visible manufacturer’s logo above the neckline. Team B’s coach informs the official of the logos just as the ball is about to be inbounded to begin the second quarter. RULING: Illegal jerseys. A technical foul is charged directly to Team A’s head coach when the infraction is discovered. Team B is awarded two free throws followed by a division-line throw-in opposite the table. Team A’s head coach has lost his/her coaching-box privileges for the remainder of the game in states utilizing the optional coaching box. (3-4-2a)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm sorry, but Peter Webb is just plain wrong.

The NFHS rulebook indicates that the penalty for illegal jersey and pants, as well as numbers, is a technical foul charged to the head coach. See 10-5-4 and the related penalty as well as the Technical Foul Summary after Rule 10.

The rule he cited has to do with illegal items such as undershirts, compression shorts/sleeves, etc. but not the uniform jersey or shorts. A player wearing one of those non-uniform items that is not legal may not play with them. But that rule does not extend to the uniform items.

Our state interpreter has spoken on the matter previously too. In fact, they changed this rule just 2-3 years ago to be only 1 T for any number of infractions and also changed it to apply to the head coach an not just the team. They covered it in the rule change discussions at the time. If you were not going to let a player participate with an illegal uniform, why would you charge the T at all?

Agreed with all of this. The excessive logos is a violation of 3-4 and all violations of 3-4 are a T to the coach.

If the school provides it (jersey, pants), then it's a T to the coach. If the student provides it (undergarments, adornments, shoes, socks), then just don't play with it.

Besides, in the play mentioned, the chance of only one jersey being wrong is very low. So, we're not going to let any of the kids play? Sweet! That makes for a short night.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm sorry, but Peter Webb is just plain wrong.

The NFHS rulebook indicates that the penalty for illegal jersey and pants, as well as numbers, is a technical foul charged to the head coach. See 10-5-4 and the related penalty as well as the Technical Foul Summary after Rule 10.

The rule he cited has to do with illegal items such as undershirts, compression shorts/sleeves, etc. but not the uniform jersey or shorts. A player wearing one of those non-uniform items that is not legal may not play with them. But that rule does not extend to the uniform items.

Our state interpreter has spoken on the matter previously too. In fact, they changed this rule just 2-3 years ago to be only 1 T for any number of infractions and also changed it to apply to the head coach an not just the team. They covered it in the rule change discussions at the time. If you were not going to let a player participate with an illegal uniform, why would you charge the T at all?

Thanks, Camron. That’s what I get for reading an interpretation when half asleep. A follow-up e-mail to Peter Webb is on the way.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Look to see who is still on the bench and EJ all the others.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nobody !!!

Since I'm in the mood ...

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The chance of only one jersey being wrong is very low. So, we're not going to let any of the kids play?

I already threw out all the players, and all the bench personnel, for a fight in an earlier thread. I might as well make it two for two.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the school provides it (jersey, pants), then it's a T to the coach. If the student provides it (undergarments, adornments, shoes, socks), then just don't play with it.

I've got to agree with both CAmron and Bob, and I really like this part of Bob's post as far as how to remember when to assess the T and let them play versus not letting them play with it.