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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 05:53pm
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Defender's Wide Stance - LGP?

Group video study today yielded this question:
A1 crashes into B2 who fulfilled the two requisites of LGP, both feet on the playing court with torso facing the opponent. Contact was caused by A1, but it wasn't on the torso, it was on the upper thigh of the B2, who was stationary, but standing with a wide stance, his feet much farther apart than his shoulders.
Is this a block by a B2 who "extended his leg into the path of an opponent" (4-23-1)? Or...
Is this a charge by A1 who caused illegal contact against B2 in legal guarding position who just happened to be standing there with a wide stance?
The requirement to keep the feet "within his/her vertical plane with a stance approximately shoulder width apart" is specified for a screener (4-40-2d), but nowhere is that expectation stated for a defender that I can find.
By rule, is a wide stance (feet wider than shoulder width) legal for a defender maintaining LGP?
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Last edited by Freddy; Sat Nov 09, 2013 at 06:08pm.
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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 06:06pm
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I've got a block, assuming the contact would have been avoided had his feet not been spread.
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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 06:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I've got a block, assuming the contact would have been avoided had his feet not been spread.
Agreed. No different from "LGP, except had the arms outspread and A1 runs into the arms" which I had last night.
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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 06:20pm
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Rule 4: Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard
and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is
entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first
without illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder,
hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position
if contact occurs.


Rule 10: A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress
of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by
bending his/her body into other than a normal position;
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Nov 09, 2013 at 06:29pm.
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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 06:21pm
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Block.
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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 06:36pm
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So, "Wide Stance" = "Extending..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Rule 4: Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard
and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is
entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first
without illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder,
hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position
if contact occurs.


Rule 10: A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress
of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by
bending his/her body into other than a normal position;
You are suggesting, on the basis of 4-23-1, that I consider the defender standing with an extra wide stance (feet farther than shoulder width apart) a player who "extends...a leg into the path of an opponent".
I can buy that. And by rule I think I can back that.
I was looking for somewhere where it specified "shoulder width apart" or "within his vertical plane", but can't find anything like that. Your reference seems to say the same thing, however. "Wide stance" = "Extending...".
Thanx!
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Old Sat Nov 09, 2013, 10:29pm
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I am not saying this is what exactly happened in your game Freddy, but usually when thigh-to-thigh contact take place, the shoulders of the offensive player are past or close to past the defender. Block.
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2013, 03:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I am not saying this is what exactly happened in your game Freddy, but usually when thigh-to-thigh contact take place, the shoulders of the offensive player are past or close to past the defender. Block.
That really has nothing to do with it. The only thing that matter is whether the defender's leg was outside of his frame or not.
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2013, 04:20am
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oux eureka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
...only thing that matter is whether the defender's leg was outside of his frame or not.
That's the language I was expecting to find somewhere regarding the issue, but it's nowhere to be found as pertaining guarding (screening, yes; guarding, no), only as, perhaps, another way of saying what 4-23-1 says
But I can understand how "outside the frame" can = "extends a leg".
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