Elbow Swing

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm not going to flagrant until I see intent or complete disregard for safety.

Where's the "Like" button on this website? By the way, if I did click it, it would mean that I liked the post, not necessarily the poster. I want to be sure that I make this perfectly clear. One is judged by the company he keeps, and I've got a reputation to maintain.

[canuckrefguy]

Download Video as MP4

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Download Video as MP4

So as I read the rule, this should be an intentional foul.

[BillyMac]

Nice video canuckrefguy. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So as I read the rule, this should be an intentional foul.

2012-13 Points Of Emphasis
b. Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.

Using my old fashioned unofficial definition (elbows that are swinging faster than the pivoting player), I would not call this excessive swinging (with no contact I would not call this an excessive swinging violation), but, in the spirit, and intent (be careful swinging elbows near other player's heads), of the rule change, a few years ago, I would call this an intentional foul.

But, then again, the NFHS rule change confused me back when it came out, we still have come confusion among our local board members, and it still confuses me, so I'm open to other interpretations.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Download Video as MP4

This elbow is moving faster than his body, in my opinion it's intentional.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This elbow is moving faster than his body, in my opinion it's intentional.

Agree, he was moving elbow from one side of his torso to the other and raising from low to high while also turning. Intentional Foul.

It would have been different if he had raised them before turning and didn't bring them across his body...and didn't lead with them.

[ballgame99]

Had a play last night I was trying to get some clarification on and I don't have my rule book handy. We had a rebounder come down and start swinging elbows. No contact was made with any of them. My partner calls a technical for excessive elbows. I asked if there was contact made and his reply was that it didn't matter. I let him take the call and he got a bunch of crap for it.

After the game we were discussing it and I told him I thought it there was swinging and no contact that it was a violation, and if there was contact the penalty would depend on the severity of the contact. Plus I told him I thought it was an intentional foul rather than a technical. He was certain he had called it right and that if there WERE any contact it was flagrant and auto ejection.

This thread discusses the various degrees of contact and how they should be penalized but it doesn't really discuss if no contact is made. Am I thinking right that elbows with no contact is just a violation? Bonus points if you know the rules citation.

[Raymond]

I keep my rule book in my bag just for such locker room discussions.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Had a play last night I was trying to get some clarification on and I don't have my rule book handy. We had a rebounder come down and start swinging elbows. No contact was made with any of them. My partner calls a technical for excessive elbows. I asked if there was contact made and his reply was that it didn't matter. I let him take the call and he got a bunch of crap for it.

After the game we were discussing it and I told him I thought it there was swinging and no contact that it was a violation, and if there was contact the penalty would depend on the severity of the contact. Plus I told him I thought it was an intentional foul rather than a technical. He was certain he had called it right and that if there WERE any contact it was flagrant and auto ejection.

This thread discusses the various degrees of contact and how they should be penalized but it doesn't really discuss if no contact is made. Am I thinking right that elbows with no contact is just a violation? Bonus points if you know the rules citation.

NFHS 9-13-1

A player shall not excessively swing his/her arms(s) or elbow(s), even without contacting an opponent.

There's nothing in Rule 10 under Player Technicals regarding elbows. If your partner thought A1 was trying to intimidate B1 by swinging his elbows he could possibly consider 10-3-6c (Baiting or taunting) but other than that the menu is limited regarding live-ball elbow contact: Nothing, common/PC/TC, IF or FF. Since there wasn't any contact the violation more than likely would have been the proper call.

Make a polite suggestion should you see him again that he either read his rule book or pay a visit to us

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I keep my rule book in my bag just for such locker room discussions.

And yeah, this has been known to help as well.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Had a play last night I was trying to get some clarification on and I don't have my rule book handy. We had a rebounder come down and start swinging elbows. No contact was made with any of them. My partner calls a technical for excessive elbows. I asked if there was contact made and his reply was that it didn't matter. I let him take the call and he got a bunch of crap for it.

After the game we were discussing it and I told him I thought it there was swinging and no contact that it was a violation, and if there was contact the penalty would depend on the severity of the contact. Plus I told him I thought it was an intentional foul rather than a technical. He was certain he had called it right and that if there WERE any contact it was flagrant and auto ejection.

This thread discusses the various degrees of contact and how they should be penalized but it doesn't really discuss if no contact is made. Am I thinking right that elbows with no contact is just a violation? Bonus points if you know the rules citation.

If there is excessive swinging with no contact...violation. However, just a few years ago, your partner would have been correct. It was a technical foul until sometime in the late 2000's.

[ballgame99]

Thanks for the follow up guys, yeah he was an old timer so that maybe explains it. And I normally do have my rule book in the bag and i went to grab it and I just had my manual. I took it out for reference after last season and never put it back. Thanks again.