Reporting a simultaneous foul

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

It happens so rarely (I've never had it) that I wouldn't be concerned too much with how to go about it. I'd probably just have one official report it, and I'd likely go to the table to do it rather than standing in my normal reporting area. It's an unusual situation, so the scorer may need clarification.

I had it happened once and each of us reported the foul we had. And we had to explain what we were going to do. I remember both of us having to slow down to make sure we had just this kind of foul.

Peace

[brainbrian]

I've seen a blarge happen, similar thing.

All three referees got together, got it straightened out. Then they brought the coaches together in front of the table so they knew what was going on. Then the head referee reported both fouls to the table while the other two went and got ready to resume play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would have each official report his own foul. Just something I don't like about one official reporting something another official saw.

Definitely something that should be done face-to-face at the table as you said and probably a joint convo with the coaches to explain what's going on as well.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I had it happened once and each of us reported the foul we had. And we had to explain what we were going to do. I remember both of us having to slow down to make sure we had just this kind of foul.

Peace

This was my first thought, and it might well be the best approach. My hesitation, though, is that there would be one less person watching the players while the reporting was being done. Also, I like the streamlined approach of having one official report both; easier to keep everyone's attention that way.

The drawback, obviously, is in having one official reporting a foul he didn't call. But any questions about that foul could easily be directed to the calling official.

[just another ref]

In the case of simultaneous fouls is it acceptable to all for the officials to get together and determine if they were indeed simultaneous? If it is determined that one occurred before the other, one can be ignored?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In the case of simultaneous fouls is it acceptable to all for the officials to get together and determine if they were indeed simultaneous? If it is determined that one occurred before the other, one can be ignored?

Personally, I think it should be required. Because by rule, most simultaneous fouls aren't really simultaneous. One happened before the other, causing the ball to become dead; so the second foul didn't happen (or should be ignored).

Only if the order cannot be determined should a simultaneous foul be the call.

[johnny d]

If it was decided they didn't happen simultaneously, the second foul would be ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant, and would then be a technical foul for dead ball contact.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

If it was decided they didn't happen simultaneously, the second foul would be ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant, and would then be a technical foul for dead ball contact.

There's another possibility. It could be ruled a false double (if the first foul, or example, was against the defense and occurred after a shot attempt had begun) and penalized in the order of occurrence.

Potentially, FTs for the shooter with the lane cleared. Ball OOB to the defense at the spot nearest where the foul was committed by the shooting team.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

This was my first thought, and it might well be the best approach. My hesitation, though, is that there would be one less person watching the players while the reporting was being done. Also, I like the streamlined approach of having one official report both; easier to keep everyone's attention that way.

Well if you have 2 officials working, we are going to have to discuss the play so it is possible for a few moments you will have no one "watching" the players. Is that a terrible thing? Not always IMO and not necessarily if you ask me. Because you need to decide if one came before the other or make sure you both have the same thing and why not.

Originally Posted by Adam

The drawback, obviously, is in having one official reporting a foul he didn't call. But any questions about that foul could easily be directed to the calling official.

One watch the players as the other one reports and when the first official is finished, go report the other foul by the other official. Again, so rare in the first place I do not think it is that big of a deal. As I said I have only had it happen once that I can think of (lower level 2 person game) and I have yet to hear of anyone in my area that it happened to them. I think the players and coaches would be so confused that they would be more worried about what you called then doing anything stupid. But no matter what you do players will be confused on some level.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

I understand that this is a very rare occurence and no matter what you do, no one will know whether you do it wrong or not. However I am seeing that we are split down the middle: one reports, then the other; or get together and one official takes it to the table. That is all well and good and I could go either way, however no one has as yet gone to the attic to dust off their 1934 mechanics book to give us direction as to what the preferred way is? I haven't come across anything that gives any light. Is there someone out there that has a reference?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I understand that this is a very rare occurence and no matter what you do, no one will know whether you do it wrong or not. However I am seeing that we are split down the middle: one reports, then the other; or get together and one official takes it to the table. That is all well and good and I could go either way, however no one has as yet gone to the attic to dust off their 1934 mechanics book to give us direction as to what the preferred way is? I haven't come across anything that gives any light. Is there someone out there that has a reference?

I seriously doubt this is even addressed and certainly not addressed some time ago. That is one example of why my state stopped using the NF book, because so many situations were not covered or explained in the first place as people try to go word for word out of the book. Other then the fact the calling official reports their foul, not sure why we would change that just in this unusual situation?

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I understand that this is a very rare occurence and no matter what you do, no one will know whether you do it wrong or not. However I am seeing that we are split down the middle: one reports, then the other; or get together and one official takes it to the table. That is all well and good and I could go either way, however no one has as yet gone to the attic to dust off their 1934 mechanics book to give us direction as to what the preferred way is? I haven't come across anything that gives any light. Is there someone out there that has a reference?

The calling official reports the foul they called. That is what the book says, no need to deviate here. The fact that it is a "simultaneous" foul is mostly an artificial label due to coincidence. It is just two fouls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The calling official reports the foul they called. That is what the book says, no need to deviate here. The fact that it is a "simultaneous" foul is mostly an artificial label due to coincidence. It is just two fouls.

Well, it does matter as far as the enforcement goes.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

Well, it does matter as far as the enforcement goes.

Agreed, but what the enforcement will be has never determined who reports a foul(s). The enforcement it what occurs after the fouls are reported.

EDIT: I'll add that the last of the two to report should probably announce the combined enforcement to the table.