Charging rule

[potato]

I realize there's some difference between NBA/FIBA and now even NCAA is having their own rule so i split between with RA & without RA.

Because someone mention shooting motion is not just the moment the shooting takes place but also the habitual movement of a shot for a layup it'd be gathering a 1-2 step before the jump. So as long as Defensive has Legal Guarding Position before the offense goes airborne it's legal irregardless of the usual shooting habitual movement yes?

And can i see the RA as a rule to prevent the 2nd defender to get a cheap charge, and doesn't apply to the 1st defender, so if a guy comes flying from 3 point line into the zone D1 will get his Charging call on A1 as long as he established legal position inside the zone before A1 goes airborne?

However since RA doesn't prevent the 2nd defender from jumping to block, would D1 be called for a blocking foul if contact made should he jump up for a block instead of standing still for an "illegal" charge which he would be called for blocking considering he had legal guarding position but illegal since he is the 2nd defender?

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

To answer these in order...

1. Time and distance are not a factor in establishing legal guarding position on an opponent who has the ball or a stationary opponent who does not have the ball (NFHS 4-23-4a). Remember, always strive to use the correct terms.

1a. If an opponent with the ball is airborne the defender has to obtain legal guarding position before the opponent left the floor (NFHS 4-24-4b). As JRut mentions, the standard is different as of this season under NCAAM rules.

Regarding the RA, it's incorrect to say a defender cannot draw a PC foul in the area. Under NCAA rules:



The RA also doesn't prevent a defender from playing defense. A defender can try to block shots, etc. He/she just can't draw PC fouls apart from the situations mentioned above.

The addition of the Lower Defensive Box under NCAAW rules this coming season gives something back to the defense. If an offensive player begins her move inside the LDB, the RA doesn't matter.

[APG]

You still didn't answer the question. Which rule set are you looking for? The rule is different from the NBA, NCAA men, NCAA women, FIBA, or NFHS. We need to know what rule set you're looking for (in all your questions) because depending on what rule set you're looking for an answer for, will mean you'll get a different answer because the rule is different.

For instance, under NBA and NCAA men rules, a defender must obtain a legal position before the offensive player starts his upward motion with the ball to shoot or pass. But for NCAA women and NFHS (and I want to say FIBA but I'd have to look that up), a defender has to get a legal guarding position before the player with the ball is airborne (meaning both feet are off the floor).

So again, answer specifically what rule set you're looking to get an answer for.

[potato]

I'm looking at NBA & FIBA international, but would be interesting to know how other leagues sees it.

When you say NBA NCAA Moving up motion, that means any habitual movement prior the shot, i.e 1-2 step for layup, or pivoting for a jumper so you need to be in position real early in order to get legal guarding position yes?

Originally Posted by APG

You still didn't answer the question. Which rule set are you looking for? The rule is different from the NBA, NCAA men, NCAA women, FIBA, or NFHS. We need to know what rule set you're looking for (in all your questions) because depending on what rule set you're looking for an answer for, will mean you'll get a different answer because the rule is different.

[APG]

Originally Posted by potato

I'm looking at NBA & FIBA international, but would be interesting to know how other leagues sees it.

When you say NBA NCAA Moving up motion, that means any habitual movement prior the shot, i.e 1-2 step for layup, or pivoting for a jumper so you need to be in position real early in order to get legal guarding position yes?

No...it literally means when the ball starts upward to shoot or pass the ball.

[potato]

Just wondering if Dribbler passed the primary defender & ran into another defender who has been in the zone to defend his own man, will the defender the dribbler ran into be called for blocking since he wasn't there to purposely block the dribbler?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

Just wondering if Dribbler passed the primary defender & ran into another defender who has been in the zone to defend his own man, will the defender the dribbler ran into be called for blocking since he wasn't there to purposely block the dribbler?

"in the zone"?????

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

"in the zone"?????

He's in the restricted area guarding his own man and the dribbler runs into him. Is this a foul? I think that's what he's asking.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

Just wondering if Dribbler passed the primary defender & ran into another defender who has been in the zone to defend his own man, will the defender the dribbler ran into be called for blocking since he wasn't there to purposely block the dribbler?

It can't be a charge. that's all. It can be a no-call or a block.

NCAA. Don't know about FIBA.

[potato]

The main reason for RA is to prevent secondary defender from taking advantage by being there early for a charge, but if the so called secondary defender was there to defend his man, won't it be unfair to the defense that he has to make way & get out of position to let the dribbler pass, in this case he not only has to give up his position but also give up defending his man giving him a wide open under basket pass.

won't it be fairer to 1st determine whether the player trying to take a charge was actually there to defend the handler that went pass his primary defender?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It can't be a charge. that's all. It can be a no-call or a block.

NCAA. Don't know about FIBA.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

IAnd can i see the RA as a rule to prevent the 2nd defender to get a cheap charge, and doesn't apply to the 1st defender, so if a guy comes flying from 3 point line into the zone D1 will get his Charging call on A1 as long as he established legal position inside the zone before A1 goes airborne?

What are the chances that the primary defender will be in the RA when the offensive player is by the three point line?

However since RA doesn't prevent the 2nd defender from jumping to block, would D1 be called for a blocking foul if contact made should he jump up for a block instead of standing still for an "illegal" charge which he would be called for blocking considering he had legal guarding position but illegal since he is the 2nd defender?

It could be a legal play (shot block), or it could be a blocking foul. It can't be a charge. Too many people think it *must* be a defensive foul and that's not true.

(All of the above subject to the rules code being used, of course.)

[potato]

I mention 3 point line just to make sure the offense is jumping from outside the RA, but i guess doesn't matter whether he jumps from inside or outside the RA right? As long as he doesn't stop his motion.

Well i saw a clip where Scottie Pippen took a Charge from Karl Malone on a 1 on 1 fastbreak, not sure whether RA exist back then though.

So the non charge rule applies only to non primary defenders yes primary can still take charge in RA?

What if it's a pick & roll, how would you then determine who is the primary defender?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What are the chances that the primary defender will be in the RA when the offensive player is by the three point line?



It could be a legal play (shot block), or it could be a blocking foul. It can't be a charge. Too many people think it *must* be a defensive foul and that's not true.

(All of the above subject to the rules code being used, of course.)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

So the non charge rule applies only to non primary defenders yes primary can still take charge in RA?

What if it's a pick & roll, how would you then determine who is the primary defender?

Secondary defenders only -- and that term is defined and changes a bit on a rebound and a fast-break.

By knowing the game and the definitions.

[potato]

In a pick & roll should the offense pass the primary defender who is being screened would the switched defender be seen as Primary or Secondary defender?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Secondary defenders only -- and that term is defined and changes a bit on a rebound and a fast-break.

By knowing the game and the definitions.

[bob jenkins]

What does the definition of secondary defender say?

[johnny d]

No way possible the primary defender on a offensive player starting from outside the 3-point line is going to be the primary defender. Therefore that part of your hypothetical question is ridiculous and doesn't need an answer.