charging call

[readingofficial]

I had a game this weekend and was working with a much more experienced partner. We had a call that we did not agree on. I had a charge, the Defender had L.G.P. before the offensive player left the floor to take a shoot and crashed into the defender. My partner tells me it is a block, because the offensive player was in the act of shoot before the defensive had L.G.P. Can someone explain to me the proper call there. Thanks

[ref18]

in the situation you mentioned, a charge is the correct call.

Just out of curiosity, what call was made??

[readingofficial]

My partner called a block on the play. He says the act of shooting determines if it was a block or charge. I still believe that if L.G.P. is established before take off it is a charge, I never seen anything about act of shooting.

[ref18]

You were right

[Chin Ref]

ReadingOfficial, it doesnt matter what the call was. If I were one of you with dbl whistled, I'll approach my partner for a quick discussion & let whoever was watching the defense makes the call. Comment?

[Eric Huechteman]

Originally posted by readingofficial
I had a game this weekend and was working with a much more experienced partner. We had a call that we did not agree on. I had a charge, the Defender had L.G.P. before the offensive player left the floor to take a shoot and crashed into the defender. My partner tells me it is a block, because the offensive player was in the act of shoot before the defensive had L.G.P. Can someone explain to me the proper call there. Thanks

According to NFHS, once B1 has both feet on the floor while facing A1 within 6 ft., LGP has been established. After that, B1 can move to maintain position. Even if B1 was moving when A1 went up for the shot, contact would be a player-control foul on A1 (unless A1 got head and shoulder beyond B1's torso).

It is a common misconception of players, coaches, fans, and many refs that B1 must be stationary in order to draw a charge. An interesting note: B1 can even jump stop into the path of A1. As long as B1 is facing A1 at the time, he immediately gains legal guarding position. (Rule 4-23-4 states, "Guarding an opponent with the ball...: a. No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position. b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.")

So if B1 had already gained LGP and had not yet lost it, your situation would merit a player control foul on A1.

[readingofficial]

Chin, that is how it was handled. The play was going towards my partner , so I let him have the call. My problem was that I just did not feel like he was correct, so for my information, I want to know the correct answer. Eric, thanks for the detail explaination. With that explaination, a charge seems to be the correct call.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Eric Huechteman

According to NFHS, once B1 has both feet on the floor while facing A1 within 6 ft., LGP has been established.

Not quite.

Six feet is the maximum distance when closely guarded. LGP can be attained at greater distances.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Eric Huechteman
Even if B1 was moving when A1 went up for the shot, contact would be a player-control foul on A1.

As long as B1 is not moving into the path of airborne A1. If B1 is already in A1's path, then B1 may of course move by moving backwards or by jumping straight up in his/her vertical plane.

But even with LGP, the defender may not move into the path of an airborne shooter. I'm sure you already knew that, but I wanted to make it clearer.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by readingofficial
Chin, that is how it was handled. The play was going towards my partner , so I let him have the call. My problem was that I just did not feel like he was correct, so for my information, I want to know the correct answer. Eric, thanks for the detail explaination. With that explaination, a charge seems to be the correct call.

Reading, where did the offensive player start from. I ask this in the following context. Were you "fishing" in someone elses pond? Or is this just something you saw and are curious, as in you didn't have a double whistle? If you had a double whistle, one thing to consider is who's call it was, and if it wasn't in your area, you may need to concentrate on not watching the ball, it will pay off big time to learn that skill as quickly as possible...

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

As long as B1 is not moving into the path of airborne A1. If B1 is already in A1's path, then B1 may of course move by moving backwards or by jumping straight up in his/her vertical plane.

They may even be moving laterally IF and ONLY IF that movement is not putting them more into the path. Example B1 guarding A1, A1 fakes right and jumps right at B1 just as B1 bites on the fake. B1 is moving left when A1 plows over B1. Charge. B1 was in that spot before A1 jumped. B1 was only leaving that spot/path, not adding to or increasing the contact.

[Rickref]

Originally posted by readingofficial
I had a game this weekend and was working with a much more experienced partner. We had a call that we did not agree on. I had a charge, the Defender had L.G.P. before the offensive player left the floor to take a shoot and crashed into the defender. My partner tells me it is a block, because the offensive player was in the act of shoot before the defensive had L.G.P. Can someone explain to me the proper call there. Thanks

If in your partners preception that A1 had become an airborne shooter before LGP was obtained thats a block. If in your preception that LGP was obtained before the shooter became airborne that's player control. It boils down to when was LGP obtained. However, as you stated if it's in your partners area that's up to his judgement.

[readingofficial]

As far as it being in someone area, the player started from my area , i was the trail, and drove to the basket, so he ended up in the leads area. So I did let him make the call, but the problem was that he said that the act of shooting determined if it was a charge or block. And that is what i did not agree with.

[Chin Ref]

Originally posted by readingofficial
As far as it being in someone area, the player started from my area , i was the trail, and drove to the basket, so he ended up in the leads area. So I did let him make the call, but the problem was that he said that the act of shooting determined if it was a charge or block. And that is what i did not agree with.

I think you have done everything right. You may not have fish in his pond as cmathews suggested. However, the block/charge boundary is thin sometimes. Just let whoever better convincing ref makes the call & continue with the game, then forget about it.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by readingofficial
As far as it being in someone area, the player started from my area , i was the trail, and drove to the basket, so he ended up in the leads area. So I did let him make the call, but the problem was that he said that the act of shooting determined if it was a charge or block. And that is what i did not agree with.

That's your partner's interpretation - not a conflicting call.

Talk to him after the game about it, but I wouldn't make a big deal about it during the game. Just be happy with your knowledge that your interpretation is correct and "get in, get out, get done."