Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game ...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You miss the overall point (once again). We have to communicate many things quickly and precisely and do so using terminology players and coaches would understand. If we don't then we will confuse the people we are talking to. They are not looking to us for a rules clinic or a complete explaination of what the rule is on a throw-in or other things.
Peace

Actually, Billy is spot on this time.

It should be our goal to use accurate and brief communications that convey the meaning without implying things that are not true. You may have found a short phrase that is quick and gets your desired results but it over states the requirement. Such things are the genesis of myths and misconceptions. No one says you need to give a complete explanation of the rule is but you shouldn't be stating it in a way that is wrong.

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, Billy is spot on this time.

It should be our goal to use accurate and brief communications that convey the meaning without implying things that are not true. You may have found a short phrase that is quick and gets your desired results but it over states the requirement. Such things are the genesis of myths and misconceptions. No one says you need to give a complete explanation of the rule is but you shouldn't be stating it in a way that is wrong.

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

I have never T'd a coach over this issue and honestly have not been the administrating official and they think the player had a pivot foot and moved that "pivot foot" or what they thought was a pivot foot.

What have you misinformed them about?

Actually years ago I had to T a coach because he felt after a made basket (FT) that I should as the official go to the other side of the court and hand the thrower the ball. Not only would that have been against our state's mechanic to not bounce the ball across the lane, but it would have confused the hell out of my partners and wondering why C could now have to go to L and the L would have to go to C. The coach was convinced that his ability to throw the ball in had something to do with where I gave his player the ball and acted out and got a T. And I told his player, "You can run over there if you like."

Again you are entilted to your opinion, but when someone that I work for or with complains about such communication it will certainly be the first. Until I read this thread I would not have known anyone cared that much.

Peace

[johnny d]

I have to agree with JRut on this one. In the middle of a game it isn't my responsibility to conduct a rules clinic for the players and coaches. I use spot throw-in rather than don't move. If the player and or coach, because of their lack of rule knowledge, takes that to mean they cannot move that is their problem, not mine. They will figure it out eventually or continue to put themselves at a disadvantage. As far as perpetuating myths and misconceptions, the horse is already out of the barn. Fans, players, and coaches have already been influenced by their exposure to these and their stance on the rules or plays in question isn't going to change until they actually read the rule book. Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Absolutely.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I have to agree with JRut on this one. In the middle of a game it isn't my responsibility to conduct a rules clinic for the players and coaches. I use spot throw-in rather than don't move. If the player and or coach, because of their lack of rule knowledge, takes that to mean they cannot move that is their problem, not mine. They will figure it out eventually or continue to put themselves at a disadvantage. As far as perpetuating myths and misconceptions, the horse is already out of the barn. Fans, players, and coaches have already been influenced by their exposure to these and their stance on the rules or plays in question isn't going to change until they actually read the rule book. Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Difference is, you're not saying "don't move."

I say, "this is your spot."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Difference is, you're not saying "don't move."

I say, "this is your spot."

So what is the difference in what you are telling them? Does a player stay their like a statue? Do they know what spot they have? Do they know what that means? Seriously, what are they getting out of your words they think they cannot do?

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So what is the difference in what you are telling them? Does a player stay their like a statue? Do they know what spot they have? Do they know what that means? Seriously, what are they getting out of your words they think they cannot do?

Peace

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

Respectfully throwing it out there... How about "You've got 36 inches (or 3 feet) wide and all the way back"? JRut, whaddaya think? (Again respectfully)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

Again, I think telling them "Don't move" tells them what they cannot do, which is what many of them might think they can do. And that is run the end line. And if you tell them spot, they are not going to know if they can move forward or backward, so is that incorrect too?

I just find this as extremely splitting hairs. Even if you say "You have a Designated spot" they still are likely not to have any idea what you said to them. After all sports and rules definitions are not the same as real life or world definitions.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So what is the difference in what you are telling them? Does a player stay their like a statue? Do they know what spot they have? Do they know what that meanps? Seriously, what are they getting out of your words they think they cannot do?

Peace

It tells thyem they can't run the endline. It's accurate rule terminology.

Use what you want, obviously it's working well enough for you.

It's just like 'on the floor' IMO, in that the vast majority of the time it gets the right message across, but it's incorrect and potentially exacerbates already problematic rule myths.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I use spot throw-in rather than don't move.

Sounds like you agree with me, otherwise you would say, "Don't move". After all, according to some Forum members, both statements mean the same thing, with, "Spot throw-in", being much too complex for player's brain to handle without the official conducting an "on the spot" rules clinic (pun intended).

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

I didn't T her, but had a spirited discussion over this once. GV the thrower moved slightly and bounced the ball on the floor. Home coach emphatically said that she couldn't do that. At halftime she came to me with it, in a relatively nice way. The floor had 12" tiles. This is an ideal way to describe what the thrower can do. She stands on one tile. This is the center of the spot. She can do a crossover step to the adjacent tile and then extend to her maximum length from there without violating. She "knew better" than this. I offered to bet double or nothing the game fee.

After the game the assistant was trying to look up the rule online, or so I heard.