Partner support

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Toren

give a bench warning in high school?

I find that although it's no where in the rule book, it sends a pretty clear statement that we as a crew are done with the coach.

I don't do it for three reasons.

First, it's not supported by rule.

Second, it means nothing more than just a simple verbal warning. I just make sure I inform my partners that I've warned the coach so we don't give him multiple warnings.

Third, it perpetuates the idea that they are some how owed a warning before any technical foul is issued.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

It means nothing more than just a simple verbal warning. I just make sure I inform my partners that I've warned the coach so we don't give him multiple warnings.

The second part of your statement (above) is important. Informing your partner could be either verbally (timeout, intermission, etc., my preferred method), or visually (stop sign). Sometimes things go so quickly in a game that one might not have time to verbally inform one's partner, thus the option (not by rule) of the stop sign. On the other hand, a partner, distracted while talking to a player, might not see a stop sign.

Originally Posted by Adam

It perpetuates the idea that they are some how owed a warning before any technical foul is issued.

Good point. One that I don't believe that I've ever seen expressed here on the Forum. Great point.

[BigBaldGuy]

I am a huge fan of the stop sign at the high school and college level (I work women's basketball) and the stop sign and a verbal warning are usually required. As well as actually putting the warning in the book at your first opportunity. I think it gives the coach a chance (if they want to) to cool down with a warning as we are trying to defuse the situation without using a technical foul. I have also had coaches tell me thank you for not whacking me and just giving me a warning on that play...I lost my head for a moment. Some coaches are going to run right through the stop sign and get whacked...but at least I tried to bring them back down. Also, you must always notified your partners at the first opportunity that the coach has been warned.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

You must always notify your partners at the first opportunity that the coach has been warned.

I hope that we all agree on that, no matter what type (oral, or visual) of "warning" is given.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

I am a huge fan of the stop sign at the high school and college level (I work women's basketball) and the stop sign and a verbal warning are usually required. As well as actually putting the warning in the book at your first opportunity. I think it gives the coach a chance (if they want to) to cool down with a warning as we are trying to defuse the situation without using a technical foul. I have also had coaches tell me thank you for not whacking me and just giving me a warning on that play...I lost my head for a moment. Some coaches are going to run right through the stop sign and get whacked...but at least I tried to bring them back down. Also, you must always notified your partners at the first opportunity that the coach has been warned.

Your post illustrates that the coaches run the system in the leagues which you work. That's too bad. Poor behavior doesn't deserve a warning. It deserves to be penalized. A coach shouldn't be thanking an official for not getting T'd. A coach should be behaving in a manner that doesn't warrant one in the first place.
Sorry to say, but the inmates run the asylum where you are and you have sold out by taking the money and dealing with their garbage.
I guess that some people are happy doing that and others aren't.

[BigBaldGuy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Your post illustrates that the coaches run the system in the leagues which you work. That's too bad. Poor behavior doesn't deserve a warning. It deserves to be penalized. A coach shouldn't be thanking an official for not getting T'd. A coach should be behaving in a manner that doesn't warrant one in the first place.
Sorry to say, but the inmates run the asylum where you are and you have sold out by taking the money and dealing with their garbage.
I guess that some people are happy doing that and others aren't.

There are cases that we can go straight to a technical foul...but if a warning can be given ahead of a technical that would be ideal. This is actually the way it is done and wanted to be done through out NCAAW basketball. It seems to work pretty well. So I am a sell out because I give a coach a warning...how did you make that leap of faith?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Poor behavior doesn't deserve a warning. It deserves to be penalized.

I find it very difficult to believe that you've never warned a coach about any type of poor behavior. You call a foul on his player and after you report the foul the coach states to you, "He traveled before he got hit. You missed it", and you hit him with a technical foul right away for questioning your call? There's a spectrum of choices that we can use to control a coach, and his bench, from simply ignoring, all the way up to, and including, an ejection. A simple warning is one of those many choices.

[Nevadaref]

That comment wouldn't require a T nor would I warn for it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That comment wouldn't require a T nor would I warn for it.

Exactly. I'm not even responding to it 99% of the time. The other 1%, I regret my response.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I find it very difficult to believe that you've never warned a coach about any type of poor behavior. You call a foul on his player and after you report the foul the coach states to you, "He traveled before he got hit. You missed it", and you hit him with a technical foul right away for questioning your call? There are a spectrum of choices that we can use to control a coach, and his bench, from simply ignoring, all the way up to, and including, an ejection. A simple warning is one of those many choices.

Yep.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Allow me to be clear, I cannot think of any situation involving poor or unsporting behavior in which I believe that a technical foul is deserved that I would instead merely issue a warning and fail to penalize the offender, whether he be a coach or a player.
If the current NCAAW rules are moving towards requiring a warning for a behavioral offense, not simply straying from the coaching box, prior to permitting a technical foul being issued, then I believe that that is going the wrong direction and allowing the mostly coaches and ADs who sit on the rules committee to inappropriately shift the balance in favor of preventing penalties for themselves.
Furthermore, I do believe that any official who would bend to those wishes (out of a desire to take the D1 paycheck) is a sell-out. Officials should be strong and insist upon proper respect when working a contest. Having a system in place which permits behavior counter to that without penalty is unacceptable working conditions for any official with an ounce of self-respect.
That's my position on this matter.

[ref3808]

I don't suppose anyone would say to the coach "Coach, properly expressed that would be MAY I talk to you?". Didn't think so. But then again, I'm from the Northeast and we all know what that means.

[tomegun]

I use the stop sign all the time. Every time I use it, the coach - an adult - immediately stops what they are doing. It is amazing how putting a hand up in someone's face makes them stop their behavior immediately. I use it with my wife too...boy does she understand that when I "give her the hand" I have had enough.

Ridiculous!

I was raised hearing, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Well, I don't want another adult giving me a stop sign so I'm not going to do it to another adult.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I use the stop sign all the time. Every time I use it, the coach - an adult - immediately stops what they are doing. It is amazing how putting a hand up in someone's face makes them stop their behavior immediately. I use it with my wife too...boy does she understand that when I "give her the hand" I have had enough.

Ridiculous!

I was raised hearing, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Well, I don't want another adult giving me a stop sign so I'm not going to do it to another adult.

I'm with you. I may give one a year and it's never quite what I wanted to do in the first place, but there I am with my hand up. By that point, I may as well have just whacked the person involved.

I work college baseball and they specifically want us to tell coaches that "this is your warning." Of course, the only penalty that follows that is ejection...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I use the stop sign all the time. Every time I use it, the coach - an adult - immediately stops what they are doing. It is amazing how putting a hand up in someone's face....

I believe they are methods of displaying the stop sign without sticking your hand in the direction of someone's face. I use a double-handed stop sign when I see a coach beginning to react to a partner's call. It always from at least 10 feet away and below my chest level.

I'll use a one-handed stop sign off to the side when I'm walking away from a contentious discussion and it's accompanied with the phrase "that's enough" or "we're done here".