Finally...

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Studying the 3-man mechanics and actually doing them in game situations are two very different games. I have seen very good 2-man officials, who have turned into very good 3-man officials struggle on the court when they first start doing 3-man. I think the biggest reason is that they are more worried about where they are supposed to go and when they are supposed to go there rather than concentrating on officiating the game. Add in the extra intensity of a playoff game and I think you are really asking for trouble by putting officials in situations that are not part of their normal routine.

I can definitely agree with this based on my experience last season... after doing exclusively 2-person games for my first 3 years, my first experiences with 3-person were a big adjustment.

Luckily, I got to work 3-person in a couple of preseason scrimmages, and my first few 3-person games were JV/Varsity doubleheaders, so I could get the "where am I supposed to go, what am I supposed to look at" kinks out of my system during the JV game.

If my first "on court" 3-person experience had been in an actual varsity game... it wouldn't have gone well.

[Rich]

I agree with the last two posts.

I work a lot of 3-person games. I'm not worried about me or the crew I normally run with -- it will be the first couple of nights of the postseason (where there are very few close games) where I expect some growing pains for the first couple of years.

We're going to have to work hard to provide opportunities for people to work 3-person in game situations even if it means doing subvarsity 3-for-2, I think.

[Sharpshooternes]

Utah has had three man for 4A and 5A mens (the top two divisions) for a long time. they just told ust there is going to be a vote here in the next couple of months whether or not to use 3 man for womens 4 and 5A (which have historically been 2 man except for the state tournament. It also sounds like the vote will be in the favor of three man. Really excited.

[Adam]

Colorado uses 3 man for all varsity games (with very few small-school exceptions). Some large schools use 3 for JV (better training for varsity that way).

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Utah has had three man for 4A and 5A mens (the top two divisions) for a long time. they just told ust there is going to be a vote here in the next couple of months whether or not to use 3 man for womens 4 and 5A (which have historically been 2 man except for the state tournament. It also sounds like the vote will be in the favor of three man. Really excited.

I am so excited about this. I have heard some vets would rather retire then do a 3 man girls game. And they will flat out need more referees if they pick up 3 man for 4A/5A and if the games are at the same time as the 4A/5A boys game then they just need more Varsity officials.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

I have heard some vets would rather retire then do a 3 man girls game.

That's just stupid.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Adam

That's just stupid.

If you understood how unskilled some of our bigger schools VG games were you would understand they might be afraid of being pulled off that VB games and put on a miserable VG game instead. And how boring some of those games might be for them. Who knows... I am just excited about possibilities for the upcoming season.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

If you understood how unskilled some of our bigger schools VG games were you would understand they might be afraid of being pulled off that VB games and put on a miserable VG game instead. And how boring some of those games might be for them. Who knows... I am just excited about possibilities for the upcoming season.

Oh, so they're ready to retire rather than work girls games at all. 2 or 3 isn't the issue, except that needing more officials for girls games might mean they have to work a few. Is that accurate?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigT

I have heard some vets would rather retire then do a three man girls game.

Originally Posted by Adam

That's just stupid.

I really enjoy the challenge, both the physical challenge, and the mental challenge, of a two person game. In that way I guess that I'm glad that Connecticut is stuck in the twentieth century in terms of three person games. However, deep down inside, I know that three person games are best for the game of high school basketball. These kids today are a lot bigger, a lot faster, and a lot more skilled, all the way down to the end of the bench, than we were back when I was in high school (three favorite subjects: hunting, grunting, and cave painting). I was six feet tall and a center. I see point guards taller than six feet in high school games today. I can see more dunks in a single high school game today than I saw in my entire high school career. I only saw one basket interference call in my entire high school career, when I got my hand accidentally tangled in the net while trying to block a shot.

[Nevadaref]

The 3-person system provides a better product, than the 2-person system all factors being equal.
Yet what happens when these factors aren't? It really matters which individuals fill the slots.

If there are three physically fit and well-trained officials working, then that system will work well. However, if one of the crew members is unfit or lacking in proper knowledge of rules, positioning, or judgment then this will cause a real mess. The other two partners will be depending upon this person to handle his coverage area and when he doesn't, the call will be missed or made incorrectly.
In fact, if there aren't enough quality officials to staff the 3-person system for the games in a league or area, then 2-person with two quality individuals will actually provide a better result.
There is no question that objectively the 3-person system is theoretically better, but the subjective factors will play a much larger role in determining the quality of the outcome in real world practice.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I really enjoy the challenge, both the physical challenge, and the mental challenge, of a two person game. In that way I guess that I'm glad that Connecticut is stuck in the twentieth century in terms of three person games. However, deep down inside, I know that three person games are best for the game of high school basketball. These kids today are a lot bigger, a lot faster, and a lot more skilled, all the way down to the end of the bench, than we were back when I was in high school (three favorite subjects: hunting, grunting, and cave painting). I was six feet tall and a center. I see point guards taller than six feet in high school games today. I can see more dunks in a single high school game today than I saw in my entire high school career. I only saw one basket interference call in my entire high school career, when I got my hand accidentally tangled in the net while trying to block a shot.

I also like that challenge, but the attitudes of players has also changed and IMO not for the better. Sportsmanship is worse and I think players attempting to get away with harming an opponent has increased. That extra set of eyes helps to discourage this and protects the crew from missing such behavior.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I really enjoy the challenge, both the physical challenge, and the mental challenge, of a two person game. In that way I guess that I'm glad that Connecticut is stuck in the twentieth century in terms of three person games. However, deep down inside, I know that three person games are best for the game of high school basketball. These kids today are a lot bigger, a lot faster, and a lot more skilled, all the way down to the end of the bench, than we were back when I was in high school (three favorite subjects: hunting, grunting, and cave painting). I was six feet tall and a center. I see point guards taller than six feet in high school games today. I can see more dunks in a single high school game today than I saw in my entire high school career. I only saw one basket interference call in my entire high school career, when I got my hand accidentally tangled in the net while trying to block a shot.

I agree here. But the third guy makes it so much easier to get the stuff that always seems to get missed with 2.

[k_st8r]

Almost [/B]all varsity is 3- man[/B] in the land of AHHH"s-KC area (1a-2a maybe not all)
All Sub varsity is all 2-man.
The problem comes in....no 3- man training ground outside of camps and clinics.
The transition into 3-man is a tough jump up in the beginning.