Finally...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Can someone give me some insight into the differences you see between calling the girls games and guys games that make girls so undesirable. Obviously the pace of play and style is going to be a little different but at least around here it's not so glaring that girls games are unpalletable. The boys game is more physical and faster but both genders can have great pace or poor pace and both can have skilled varsity teams and unskilled. Maybe its a regional thing but I wouldn't say our local girls games were that much less desirable then boys games.

I'm probably not the best person to answer since I'm not in that camp but I guess it's the factors you mentioned in addition to the generally lower skill level. I work BV, GV and NCAAW and I'll be the first to say a bad GV/NCAAW game can be hard on the senses but so can a bad BV game. The only difference - to me - is in a bad BV game you may get a dunk every once in a while. As far as I'm concerned running up and down the court with no prupose and no scoring makes for a bad game regardless of gender.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

... Obviously the pace of play and style is going to be a little lot different but at least around here it's not so glaring that girls games are unpalletable. The boys game is more physical and faster but both genders can have great pace or poor pace and both can have skilled varsity teams and unskilled...

It's greatly different around here. I just don't want to officiate games that are full of unforced turnovers and held balls. There are only a handful of GV programs in this area that have quality teams.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's greatly different around here. I just don't want to officiate games that are full of unforced turnovers and held balls. There are only a handful of GV programs in this area that have quality teams.

There's the difference. There are some really bad GV teams in NYC (mostly public schools) but some of my best, most competitive and hardest-fought games from this past season were GV. In my area the Catholic schools are well-coached and talented as are the public schools on Staten Island. You can't go into those games with a mindset of "Oh, it's just girls" or you'll be eaten up by the coaches, players AND fans.

[Pantherdreams]

These make some sense then I guess. Probably just a regional thing. Around these here parts you are as likely to get a bad boys team as a bad girls team and vice versa. Also its pretty country even in our larger communities so there is not a lot of high level athleticism in any game. You might see 1 in game dunk in a varsity boys game all year if you are lucky. Also the fact that everyone has a 24 second shot clock and 8 seconds over half means no one boys or girls is running a lot of structured offense and both teams are getting lots of shots up. Abou the only difference I see around here is that because officials don't want a ton of jump balls and in weaker girls games there are not a lot of strong players I find bad girls games get a tighter whistle and lose flow becoming free throw shooting competitions. Low level boys games tend to look more like rugby.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Can someone give me some insight into the differences you see between calling the girls games and guys games that make girls so undesirable. Obviously the pace of play and style is going to be a little different but at least around here it's not so glaring that girls games are unpalletable. The boys game is more physical and faster but both genders can have great pace or poor pace and both can have skilled varsity teams and unskilled. Maybe its a regional thing but I wouldn't say our local girls games were that much less desirable then boys games.

I will only speak for me, but not only are girls games less athletic, but I think the expectations are a lot different. Coaches and players expect a lot of little contact to be called that they do not realistically in boys games.

But most of all one of the most frustrating things for me is when you work with officials that are used to calling girls games. Often times many of girls officials are not as athletic, not as talented and it is almost like they are relegated to working girls games rather than they were accomplished officials. That is certainly the case with males most of all. And it shows up big time when at camp season you see officials have to go tot camp for camp credit and you see officias have to see some rather decent boys teams and they are completely out of their league or calling the game. That does not apply to everyone of course, but I do not change the way I call the game that drastically from even high school to college. And I am not the kind of official that just calls fouls to make coaches happy either so I tend to get frustrated when a girl goes into 3 defenders and they call a foul when I will not penalize defenders that did nothing wrong.

Just my take.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Coaches and players expect a lot of little contact to be called that they do not realistically in boys games.

Agree 100%, but I still don't mind doing a good girls game, from middle school "junior varsity", all the way up to high school varsity. I just love interscholastic basketball. I just love officiating interscholastic basketball. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Coaches and players expect a lot of little contact to be called that they do not realistically in boys games.

So it's a clientele thing as much as anything else. I'll admit there are calls I might have to make in a GV/NCAAW game that I might not make in a BV game, especially a higher-level BV game, but that's as much due to physical differences as anything else. When dunking/above-the-rim play is removed from the equation there's a lot of other stuff that has to be called so teams can score.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Often times many of girls officials are not as athletic, not as talented and it is almost like they are relegated to working girls games rather than they were accomplished officials. That is certainly the case with males most of all.

Fair point and it's something I noticed watching state H.S. championship games on ESPNU in March. I can say I don't see this as much in my area but it probably has a lot to do with the fact NYS GV uses modified NCAAW rules so many of the H.S. GV officials also work college ball. Of course there are some (the guy I mentioned a few months ago who wanted to watch the handshake at the end of a GV game was in the category) but I consider that the exception rather than the rule especially because I know he doesn't work college ball.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not the kind of official that just calls fouls to make coaches happy either so I tend to get frustrated when a girl goes into 3 defenders and they call a foul when I will not penalize defenders that did nothing wrong.

Don't we all I think that comes down to coaching more than anything else. I'm just as likely to hear a GV coach in my area yell at his/her player for going into a crowd as they are to get on us for not making a call.

[k_st8r]

Almost [/B]all varsity is 3- man[/B] in the land of AHHH"s-KC area (1a-2a maybe not all)
All Sub varsity is all 2-man.
The problem comes in....no 3- man training ground outside of camps and clinics.
The transition into 3-man is a tough jump up in the beginning.