NCAA proposed rule change...Separate yet separate

[JetMetFan]

Create separate rules book for men and women.

To separate the printing of the NCAA Men’s and Women’s Basketball Rules Books, with the following mandates:
1. That both committees meet jointly and collaborate on an annual basis;
2. That both committees will collaborate on the development of rules language where rules are identical;
3. That rules changes that impact common issues (e.g., facility issues, court markings, etc.) be discussed and every effort is made to have common rules in these areas;
4. That both secretary-rules editors will collaborate on rules book preparation and interpretations.

Rationale: Ease of understanding rules that only apply to the users.

[JetMetFan]

We were told today (Tuesday) it was the men pushing for this change.

[bob jenkins]

How hard is it to skip the rules that don't apply to one gender or the other?

I'd like to see them make the rules "more common" and splitting the books will lead to greater differences despite the four "mandates"

[JRutledge]

I think it would be a good change. Women's basketball tries to be so different I am really tired of having to figure out what they do differently so it does not spill into the Men's game. Separate would be best as the Women's side is so bent on being different then what usually happens at other level. Since the Women's side wants to be different, let them produce their own book just like it is with mechanics.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think it would be a good change. Women's basketball tries to be so different I am really tired of having to figure out what they do differently so it does not spill into the Men's game. Separate would be best as the Women's side is so bent on being different then what usually happens at other level. Since the Women's side wants to be different, let them produce their own book just like it is with mechanics.

Peace

Right, we're so different. Which is why NCAAM is the only rule set that doesn't have an airborne shooter rule on offensive fouls. Or why NCAAM has Class A and Class B technical fouls while the rest of the world...doesn't.

As I pointed out, it's the men's rules committee that pushed for this one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Right, we're so different. Which is why NCAAM is the only rule set that doesn't have an airborne shooter rule on offensive fouls. Or why NCAAM has Class A and Class B technical fouls while the rest of the world...doesn't.

As I pointed out, it's the men's rules committee that pushed for this one.

There is an airborne shooter rule, it just does not apply to a PC foul. But that is so rare it never happens. I think once in my 8 or 9 college year career have I ever had to even rule on such a play. Also Class A and Class B Technicals are really about terminology, the rule is basically the same when it comes to other levels for the most part.

Not having a 10 second rule violation and no closely guarded unless a ball handler is holding the ball is IMO very different and likely to happen more often. And then when they consider the 10 second rule they completely have to be different to start the count.

And I understand why they pushed for this separation, that is why I agree with that proposal.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

As an example, take soccer...same rules for kids of all ages from kindergarten all the way to the pros but the NCAA and NFHS inject theirs in the middle when it is a HS or NCAA game. If the same rules work for 8 year old Johnny and Suzy as works for Pele or Messi in soccer, basketball could easily do the same. In fact, FIBA is making efforts to be more in line with the US rule sets rather than striving to be different.

[MD Longhorn]

Not sure what soccer you've been watching. Every league my kid was in, from 4 to 12, the rules changed every single year.

[Camron Rust]

Our kids soccer clubs around here, and all over Oregon as AFAIK, use FIFA game rules. They do have different size fields and lengths of games and sometimes add minor modifications (slide tackles are not permitted at the younger rec levels) but the base rule book is the FIFA book. If your area is doing something different, it isn't because they need to, just that someone wants to.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Our kids soccer clubs around here, and all over Oregon as AFAIK, use FIFA game rules. They do have different size fields and lengths of games and sometimes add minor modifications (slide tackles are not permitted at the younger rec levels) but the base rule book is the FIFA book. If your area is doing something different, it isn't because they need to, just that someone wants to.

You could say the same for Pop Warner or Bill George Football. They use NF rules but modify rules for "striper rules" or other rules do not and should not apply to kids below high school ages.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The primary reason for the NFHS to be different is that they fund their operations through the sales of their rules books. All of the educational goals could be met just the same if they just adopted in total the entire NCAA or NBA rule set. But, they'd lose their revenue stream.

That brings up the question of whether the NFHS in its current form is even justified if they can only operate through a forced artificial revenue stream. Is all of what they're doing serving a valid and necessary purpose or is it just a big boondoggle.

As I said I think APG said it best as to why I think rules in the NBA would not be appropriate for an educational environment. We already have enough problems with basic rules at the NCAA level when small college rules apply, I would not want to see the RA, shot clock, technical foul application or coaching box restrictions all to be applied to high school coaches or students. Now that coach that cursed you out at the first T now gets to stand and better yet the language that is acceptable at the college level would not be acceptable at the high school level for the most obvious reasons. And you want the rules to be the same? OK, good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As an example, take soccer...same rules for kids of all ages from kindergarten all the way to the pros but the NCAA and NFHS inject theirs in the middle when it is a HS or NCAA game. If the same rules work for 8 year old Johnny and Suzy as works for Pele or Messi in soccer, basketball could easily do the same. In fact, FIBA is making efforts to be more in line with the US rule sets rather than striving to be different.

That is great, but in football where there is many more safety rules and many more situations I would not want to see NCAA Rules apply to high school players. Heck just simply the rules on BBW and when a block is a cutback block or not. No way I would want a 15 year old that does not know how to read an play to now have to worry about getting cut at the knees or ankles as apart of playing the game. And then have 5 officials as opposed to 7 cover that play. In 7 person mechanics we can watch one guy most of a play to see if these kinds of situations are legal or not. And in baseball there is a very good reason the FPSR is different at the college level then the high school level. And the pros have no such rule at all. I do not think MLB would like a FPSR apply to their game. So if you are going to use other sports as an example for what basketball should do, at least know the challenges of those other sports. And this is would all be done in places that do not on a regular basis hire the same amount of officials to cover these many variable plays. Heck we cannot even get most of the country to have 3 officials on all games. Heck working 3 is common in my area, but many here never see that kind of assignments.

Peace