2 separate fouls during shot

[wanja]

Consider this sequence:
1. A1 releases the ball on a try
2. B2 fouls A2 away from the ball
3. B1 fouls airborne shooter A1
4. The ball enters the basket

I've got
a. score the basket
b. charge B2 and B1 with personal fouls
c. administer a free throw for A1 with the lane cleared
d. administer throw in for Team A at the point closest to the foul by B2

I've got no direct rule or case reference for administering the free throw first -- only that this seems the only practical way to administer the penalties. Any different interpretation or clarification?

[JBleach85]

I can see your logic here with the way of doing that.

Counting the goal
Personal Fouls on B1 and B2
A1 shoots free throws with no one on the line
Team A's throw in at spot closest to the foul.

Cause you would shoot the free throws and then go to the throw in as the foul on B2 is not putting them into the bonus.

Now let me throw a loop into this little situation here. You might get this but this could be for anyone else reading the post.

Same situation just when B2 fouls A2, B is at 7 team fouls.

What happends?

Peace,
JB

[MathReferee]

Interesting situation. I am sure there is an old case play covering it, but I have not been able to find one. I have not been able to find anything in searching this forum either, but my thoughts are that you have a false multiple foul so each foul carries its own penalty and they should be awarded in the order in which they occurred. If it were me, I would:

1) Report the foul on B2
2) Report the foul on B1
3) Shoot the free throw by A1 with players on the lane and the ball is live like normal.

Since the foul by B2 occurred before the foul by B1, then that penalty must come first. Assuming team A is not in the bonus, then the penalty is a throw-in. But since the foul by B1 merits a free throw by A1, then that penalty is administered. Obviously, if Team A is in the bonus, then A2 will shoot their bonus free throws with the lane line cleared, then A1 would attempt their free throw with players on the lane.

I could understand why this would not be covered in a case play or anything as the situation would be weird. It is difficult to imagine this time sequence occurring in reality.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by wanja

Consider this sequence:
1. A1 releases the ball on a try
2. B2 fouls A2 away from the ball
3. B1 fouls airborne shooter A1
4. The ball enters the basket

I've got
a. score the basket
b. charge B2 and B1 with personal fouls
c. administer a free throw for A1 with the lane cleared
d. administer throw in for Team A at the point closest to the foul by B2

I've got no direct rule or case reference for administering the free throw first -- only that this seems the only practical way to administer the penalties. Any different interpretation or clarification?

Why isn't this just a simple multiple foul call? I am separated form my books at the moment, but why give A the ball again?

[wanja]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Why isn't this just a simple multiple foul call? I am separated form my books at the moment, but why give A the ball again?

A multiple foul involves two teammates fouling the same opponent. The situation in question involves 2 different opponents, so a multiple foul does not apply.

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by wanja

A multiple foul involves two teammates fouling the same opponent. The situation in question involves 2 different opponents, so a multiple foul does not apply.

A multiple foul is committed against the same opponent, but a false multiple foul does not necessarily have to be against the same opponent, just fouls committed by the same team. 4-19-12.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AustinRef

Interesting situation. I am sure there is an old case play covering it, but I have not been able to find one. I have not been able to find anything in searching this forum either, but my thoughts are that you have a false multiple foul so each foul carries its own penalty and they should be awarded in the order in which they occurred. If it were me, I would:

1) Report the foul on B2
2) Report the foul on B1
3) Shoot the free throw by A1 with players on the lane and the ball is live like normal.

Since the foul by B2 occurred before the foul by B1, then that penalty must come first. Assuming team A is not in the bonus, then the penalty is a throw-in. But since the foul by B1 merits a free throw by A1, then that penalty is administered. Obviously, if Team A is in the bonus, then A2 will shoot their bonus free throws with the lane line cleared, then A1 would attempt their free throw with players on the lane.

I could understand why this would not be covered in a case play or anything as the situation would be weird. It was be difficult to imagine this time sequence occurring in reality.

I agree.

Had the shooter been fouled first followed by the off-ball foul, you'd administer the shooting foul first with no one on the lane followed by the administration of the second foul (bonus or throwin).

[tref]

So if B2s foul was the 7th team foul, A2 would shoot 1 & 1 with the lane cleared followed by 2 shots for A1 with lane spaces occupied?

[tref]

Originally Posted by jritchie

If this would of happened, you would have ignored the other foul unless intentional or flagrant right?

Only if the contact occurs on a dead ball, right?

[doubleringer]

You forgot to mention postgame with your partner about game awareness and not calling a common foul while a shot is in the air.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jritchie

If this would of happened, you would have ignored the other foul unless intentional or flagrant right? So then you would just report the one foul and shoot the free throw like normal.

Wrong on the rule (and on the grammar).

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

You forgot to mention postgame with your partner about game awareness and not calling a common foul while a shot is in the air.

Why? So we are to ignore a foul during a LIVE ball? 'Game awareness' is a scary term that has caused us to be in the position that we are in this year with the new POE. I understand what you are saying, but the point is that if there is a foul by B2 in this situation, you have to call it. Ignoring it because of 'game awareness' is flat out ignoring the rules as written...IMO.

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by jritchie

If this would of happened, you would have ignored the other foul unless intentional or flagrant right? So then you would just report the one foul and shoot the free throw like normal.

This is only true if it were a dead ball. In this situation, the ball is still in the air, so it is live.

If Team A was in the bonus, then A2 would be awarded the bonus free throws with the lane lines cleared, followed by A1's free throw with lane lines occupied.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Why isn't this just a simple multiple foul call? I am separated form my books at the moment, but why give A the ball again?

JK:

You are on the right track. This is a false multiple foul. All fouls are penalized in the order that they occured.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinRef

Why? So we are to ignore a foul during a LIVE ball? 'Game awareness' is a scary term that has caused us to be in the position that we are in this year with the new POE. I understand what you are saying, but the point is that if there is a foul by B2 in this situation, you have to call it. Ignoring it because of 'game awareness' is flat out ignoring the rules as written...IMO.

How did the (non-intnetional, non-flagrant) contact by B2 prevent A2 from "performing normal offensive or defensive maneuvers?" Since there was a foul on A1, then it *likely* didn't, and thus, wasn't a foul.

While the official should observe the contact, and note it, s/he should also see the rest of the play to determine if the contact was a foul. Sometimes, it might be. And, even when it isn't, it can be addressed during the administration of the foul on A1.