Officiating 101 - Pregame Positioning - 2 person

[REFANDUMP]

If you don't check the official book when you go over at 12 minutes or whenever, when do you check it ??

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

If you don't check the official book when you go over at 12 minutes or whenever, when do you check it ??

Exactly what is there to check?

The point is that there is nothing in it that we're supposed to check. What we do check is that the scorer has received the rosters and the starters from the coaches. There is no requirement that the book actually be filled out at any time...except for perhaps tipoff. And even then, there is probably no rule that requires it if the scorer wants to transcribe the info on the fly. It wouldn't be a good idea, but it probably isn't illegal.

That said, I do check it to verify that there are no obvious errors. But, ultimately, it is the coach's responsibility to see that what was submitted was correct.

And, if there is ever a problem with the contents of the book. I ask the bookkeeper to check the source of the data to determine if it was submitted incorrectly or if it was copied incorrectly. If it is a copying error, there is no penalty to fix it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

The video designates the visitors' bench as being on the left and the umpire is observing them warming up on the right ... but the team warming up on the right side of the court appears to be wearing white.

Originally Posted by dvboa

Good observation... I may have to make this dang video all over again!

That was actually the very first thing I noticed. I figured they must have changed the NFHS Manual since nobody said anything about that immediately upon seeing the video

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

In our area, we go to the table at around the 12 minute mark. That enables us to remind coaches we need the book at the table by 10 or make any book corrections before 10. We want to try to avoid book technicals if we can, and technically it is a technical if these errors are corrected after the 10 minute mark (although, I know very few officals would assess a technical here).

If the teams have supplied the correct information to the scorer, and they transcribe it incorrectly, I'm not charging a technical foul for the corrections.

Ever.

I know some areas have the coaches proofread the book and sign off on it, and there is some rules justification for calling the T any time you make a change after 10:00. I think the spirit of the rule is clear, though, in that the intent is not to punish a team for a scorekeeper's clerical error.

[BillyMac]

"The umpire should move to the midcourt line" (1:40)

The midcourt line has been extinct for a couple of decades. It's the division line.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Adam

If the teams have supplied the correct information to the scorer, and they transcribe it incorrectly, I'm not charging a technical foul for the corrections.

Ever.

I know some areas have the coaches proofread the book and sign off on it, and there is some rules justification for calling the T any time you make a change after 10:00. I think the spirit of the rule is clear, though, in that the intent is not to punish a team for a scorekeeper's clerical error.

Same here. I had that come up in an NYC borough championship game in '11-12. I only mention the level of the contest because the league printed flyers with the rosters and the scorekeeper used the flyer to put names/numbers in the book. Unfortunately, the league left a player off of the flyer. We were alerted and the R ruled no T since the kid couldn't have gotten into the gym if he hadn't been on the roster lsited on the league's web site.

A pregame count didn't catch it because the team in question only had nine players and there were 12 in the book.

[dvboa]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"The umpire should move to the midcourt line" (1:40)

The midcourt line has been extinct for a couple of decades. It's the division line.

Good catch as well. Revisions are on the way...

[REFANDUMP]

Ok, just want to make sure I understand what some of you are thinking. You're telling me you go over to the scorers table and ask the scorer if a team has submitted a roster with starters from each team and that's it. The roster shows 2 no. 33's or a no. 7 or 6 players noted at starters (for example). Are you telling me you are going to be ok with issuing a technical when any of these players come onto the floor because you haven't checked the book, but have only checked to confirm that the scorer has recieved a roster !!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Ok, just want to make sure I understand what some of you are thinking. You're telling me you go over to the scorers table and ask the scorer if a team has submitted a roster with starters from each team and that's it. The roster shows 2 no. 33's or a no. 7 or 6 players noted at starters (for example). Are you telling me you are going to be ok with issuing a technical when any of these players come onto the floor because you haven't checked the book, but have only checked to confirm that the scorer has recieved a roster !!!

I look to verify two things.

1. There are no duplicate numbers.
2. There are at least as many names in the book as players warming up for each team.

If the information isn't in the book yet, but has only been supplied, there's not much to verify. If, after that, we have to change something in the book, whether I call a T or not will depend on whether the the wrong information in the book matches what was supplied by the team.

If the source information was wrong, then I'm perfectly ok with calling the T.

[REFANDUMP]

I understand what you're saying, but in my opinion that "T" is avoidable, and I prefer to keep it that way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Ok, just want to make sure I understand what some of you are thinking. You're telling me you go over to the scorers table and ask the scorer if a team has submitted a roster with starters from each team and that's it. The roster shows 2 no. 33's or a no. 7 or 6 players noted at starters (for example). Are you telling me you are going to be ok with issuing a technical when any of these players come onto the floor because you haven't checked the book, but have only checked to confirm that the scorer has recieved a roster !!!

You check the information they have submitted. You do not wait to check the scorebook. Around here or in my experience most of the time that information is submitted in another scorer's book that will be used by someone associated by the team. The home book if not a tournament is usually already listed the information. It is really not that hard to figure out where the information is coming from, at least in my experience.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I understand what you're saying, but in my opinion that "T" is avoidable, and I prefer to keep it that way.

What T? What else are you looking for?

[REFANDUMP]

Maybe I misunderstood what some of you are saying. What I'm now reading is that you're not checking the official book, but am checking the rosters given to the scorekeepers. Is this correct, and if so why not wait and do your checking after the information is entered in the official book, so you can avoid a delay if there is an error in transferring the information ?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Maybe I misunderstood what some of you are saying. What I'm now reading is that you're not checking the official book, but am checking the rosters given to the scorekeepers. Is this correct, and if so why not wait and do your checking after the information is entered in the official book, so you can avoid a delay if there is an error in transferring the information ?

You are making this really too complicated. All the rule requires is that the information submitted by correct and done before the 10 minute mark. That is it. Of course you want the official book to be correct, but if we know that the information was properly submitted before 10 minutes, then we will not penalize someone for a clerical error.

Yes the official book has to be accurate, but if someone claims that someone was not in the book or that a number was not accurate, we can review to see if that was on the team or the copying of that information.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Maybe I misunderstood what some of you are saying. What I'm now reading is that you're not checking the official book, but am checking the rosters given to the scorekeepers. Is this correct, and if so why not wait and do your checking after the information is entered in the official book, so you can avoid a delay if there is an error in transferring the information ?

Because a lot of times, the information is supplied at 12:00, but not entered until 9:00. I'm not going to hover over the scorer to ensure they transcribe correctly. Besides, what's the point in checking the book after it's entered at 8:00?