Pac-12 Officiating

[Toren]

Are the names in the Pac 12 not big enough?

You got Dave Hall, Verne Harris, Randy McCall, Greg Nixon, I could go on and on, top guys that go deep into the tourney every year.

I'm sure this is a ploy by coaches to get the eye off their back because they're losing the race on recruiting top 10 guys to east coast teams.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

Are the names in the Pac 12 not big enough?

You got Dave Hall, Verne Harris, Randy McCall, Greg Nixon, I could go on and on, top guys that go deep into the tourney every year.

I'm sure this is a ploy by coaches to get the eye off their back because they're losing the race on recruiting top 10 guys to east coast teams.

I think what they are seeing are guys who work in the ACC and/or SEC and/or Big East and/or Big 10 and/or Big XII. With the PAC 12 big dawgs there isn't nearly the crossover with other major conferences.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think what they are seeing are guys who work in the ACC and/or SEC and/or Big East and/or Big 10 and/or Big XII. With the PAC 12 big dawgs there isn't nearly the crossover with other major conferences.

And there won't be - because of the travel issues and time zones, etc., etc.. But to listen to these coaches, the Pac-12 would be so much better if only we had those East Coast officials come out here to ref the games.

A better idea would be to get more of those East Coast Coaches to come out here and do a better job of recruiting and coaching. If only Pitino and Kryz-whateverhisnameis, and Donovan, and Izzo would come out here and coach...then we would have real basketball in the Pac-12.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

A better idea would be to get more of those East Coast Coaches to come out here and do a better job of recruiting and coaching. If only Pitino and Kryz-whateverhisnameis, and Donovan, and Izzo would come out here and coach...then we would have real basketball in the Pac-12.

Ha ha, that's great. Turn it around on the coaches and target them for replacement by eastern people.

However, haven't we already seen that?
Ben Howland (now gone), Sean Miller, Steve Alford (Midwest), Dana Altman (Midwest), Andy Enfield, Herb Sendek, and Johnny Dawkins all have significant ties to Eastern or Midwest schools.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ha ha, that's great. Turn it around on the coaches and target them for replacement by eastern people.

However, haven't we already seen that?
Ben Howland (now gone), Sean Miller, Steve Alford (Midwest), Dana Altman (Midwest), Andy Enfield, Herb Sendek, and Johnny Dawkins all have significant ties to Eastern or Midwest schools.

Well, I was talking about the GOOD coaches from back east...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And there won't be - because of the travel issues and time zones, etc., etc.. But to listen to these coaches, the Pac-12 would be so much better if only we had those East Coast officials come out here to ref the games.

A better idea would be to get more of those East Coast Coaches to come out here and do a better job of recruiting and coaching. If only Pitino and Kryz-whateverhisnameis, and Donovan, and Izzo would come out here and coach...then we would have real basketball in the Pac-12.

I know of a guy in Virginia Beach who works the Big XII (just worked his first Final Four) and another guy who lives in South Carolina (never been past the first weekend) who works in the Big XII. So I don't think it's travel logistics that's keeping guys from Texas/Nebraska/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa from working in the PAC 12. I think there is something else at play here. (what it is I don't know)

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I know of a guy in Virginia Beach who works the Big XII (just worked his first Final Four) and another guy who lives in South Carolina (never been past the first weekend) who works in the Big XII. So I don't think it's travel logistics that's keeping guys from Texas/Nebraska/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa from working in the PAC 12. I think there is something else at play here. (what it is I don't know)

It's another 2 hours time difference between most of those schools and most Pac-12 schools. That's an awful big part of it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I know of a guy in Virginia Beach who works the Big XII (just worked his first Final Four) and another guy who lives in South Carolina (never been past the first weekend) who works in the Big XII. So I don't think it's travel logistics that's keeping guys from Texas/Nebraska/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa from working in the PAC 12. I think there is something else at play here. (what it is I don't know)

Well working in those states are right around other smaller mid-major conferences. And if you work in the Big 12, you also work for the same person that assigns smaller conferences in the back yard of all those states. So if you get a game in those states, you are in many cases a short drive from other D1 games even games not assigned by the Big 12 Supervisor. Going to Oregon or Arizona is not going to be very easy to work a smaller conference D1 game. Remember not everyone works basketball full time and working a game and getting back the next day might be a problem if you live in the Midwest and East trying to work a Pac 12 game. I cannot think of any Midwestern official that works the Pac 12 on a regular basis. I am sure there is someone, I just do not know who they would be and that includes the big timers.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well working in those states are right around other smaller mid-major conferences. And if you work in the Big 12, you also work for the same person that assigns smaller conferences in the back yard of all those states. So if you get a game in those states, you are in many cases a short drive from other D1 games even games not assigned by the Big 12 Supervisor. Going to Oregon or Arizona is not going to be very easy to work a smaller conference D1 game. Remember not everyone works basketball full time and working a game and getting back the next day might be a problem if you live in the Midwest and East trying to work a Pac 12 game. I cannot think of any Midwestern official that works the Pac 12 on a regular basis. I am sure there is someone, I just do not know who they would be and that includes the big timers.

The guys they want to see are on the road 25+ days a month already, so I don't think 9-to-5 rqmts would be a problem. I'm sure, as you pointed out, it has more to do with having games to work before and after to make the entire trip more profitable.

It would probably take some cooperation in scheduling the WCC, MWC, WAC, & PAC 12 on opposite nights and those coordinators all picking up some of the same officials to get some of the big names to cross the Continental Divide.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I know of a guy in Virginia Beach who works the Big XII (just worked his first Final Four) and another guy who lives in South Carolina (never been past the first weekend) who works in the Big XII. So I don't think it's travel logistics that's keeping guys from Texas/Nebraska/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa from working in the PAC 12. I think there is something else at play here. (what it is I don't know)

Adding on to JRut's comments: Do both of those guys have families? I can see doing it once in a while but if you're away from home a decent amount to begin with while staying within 500 miles from home, I can't see that going over well with the spouse/kids if you make a habit of it.

Also, the Big XII/X is still just a one time zone trip from the East with Colorado out of the mix (Texas Tech is the longest trip). Now they even have a school - West Virginia - that's not too far away.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Adding on to JRut's comments: Do both of those guys have families? I can see doing it once in a while but if you're away from home a decent amount to begin with while staying within 500 miles from home, I can't see that going over well with the spouse/kids if you make a habit of it.

Also, the Big XII/X is still just a one time zone trip from the East with Colorado is out of the mix (Texas Tech is the longest trip). Now they even have a school - West Virginia - that's not too far away.

Yes, they are both family men. When you're working 70 -100 games in a season you're not coming home between a majority of your games.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I know of a guy in Virginia Beach who works the Big XII (just worked his first Final Four) and another guy who lives in South Carolina (never been past the first weekend) who works in the Big XII. So I don't think it's travel logistics that's keeping guys from Texas/Nebraska/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa from working in the PAC 12. I think there is something else at play here. (what it is I don't know)

Sure it is. There just are not very many schools very close out west. Even though there are a few very big cities, there are only a few. Everything is spread out. Instead of a 1-2 hour flights or even a drive, you've got 3-5 hour flights to get to/from your next location. Or, you don't even have a major airport close to the school and you've got a flight and a drive or a flight and some puddle hopper connector.

Once you get west of the central plains, the scale of everything related to travel just doubles....the time and the cost.

Why would an official from Virgina want to spend 4-6 extra hours on the plane to come to the Pac-12 and ONLY the Pac-12 for the same pay when he can bounce between the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, and SEC with short flights.

They're just not going to do that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

....
Why would an official from Virgina want to spend 4-6 extra hours on the plane to come to the Pac-12 and ONLY the Pac-12 for the same pay when he can bounce between the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, and SEC with short flights.

They're just not going to do that.

Where did I say an official from Virginia going to the PAC 12? I said if an official from South Carolina or Virginia can work a regular Big XII schedule, then I can see an official from Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa/Nebraska working in the PAC 12.

I live in Virginia, I grew up in California. Give me a little more credit on knowing my geography.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Where did I say an official from Virginia going to the PAC 12? I said if an official from South Carolina or Virginia can work a regular Big XII schedule, then I can see an official from Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/Iowa/Nebraska working in the PAC 12.

I live in Virginia, I grew up in California. Give me a little more credit on knowing my geography.

Still not the same. The Big12 has enough overlap with areas of high population density that it still works. The flight connections and alternative D1 leagues are still there. Those Big12 officials are more likely to be working Big10 or SEC than they would come out to Oregon or Washington.