Play for discussion

[Toren]

Since we're slow going on the posts these days.

Picture this:

Team A in the front court, gets their pass stolen by Player B1. Player A1 runs back to defend.

You are the old T, new Lead. B1 is close to the center of the court, but is starting to arc his approach to the sideline to get a better angle at the lay-up. This arcing motion takes him closer to the opposite sideline. As the new Lead, you beat the play up the floor and pinch the paint to receive the play.

The C official is hauling down the court trying to catch the play and does a good job.

It's basically a 1 on 1 play, the teammates of each player are coming up the court, but they are barely breaking the half court mark. The illegal contact takes place outside the paint by about 1 foot or maybe half a foot, opposite the Lead. Both players hit the deck as a result of the illegal contact, so it's not a no-call situation.

The Lead thinks its my call cause it's the only play on the floor and I got the best look. The C thinks it's my call cause it originated in my area and it's outside the paint and I'm taking it all the way to the hoop.

Who's call is it and why?

One small edit: let's say you forgot to pre-game the situation.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Toren

Who's call is it and why?

C has the first crack since it's his/her primary. L should hold his/her whistle but pick up the call if C doesn't take it.

[rekent]

The way I was taught, L gets first crack at it since (if am reading it correctly) it is a play in transition and below the 3pt arc extended.

[bob jenkins]

Depends on how far down C got.

Blow the whistle, know it's a prime opportunity for a double whistle so hold the preliminary, mkae eye contact and someone take it (who hasn't just had 3 calls in a ropw; who had a similar call at the other end and wants to make the same call here, ...)

[Camron Rust]

It is not the C's primary until the C is in position for it to be his/her primary. On transition plays, the L has the lead of the play until the C/T catch up and get to their half court positions.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Toren

C

Originally Posted by Lotto

C

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

C

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

C

What's a C?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What's a C?

Billy, we know your state doesn't do 3-man. But many of the rest of us do work 3-man and have situations that involve 3 officials.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Depends on how far down C got.

Blow the whistle, know it's a prime opportunity for a double whistle so hold the preliminary, mkae eye contact and someone take it

Agree with this.

I know this is a hypothetical for discussion, but who's primary this is isn't the most important factor here -- you want to get the foul. The lead who is focused on the play may not know whether the C is in position yet to take over their primary ... blow the whistle. If the C is in position to see the call, blow the whistle. As the lead, I would probably defer to the C on the double whistle, assuming that if the C has a whistle, then they were in position to see the play. If I'm the C and was in position to make this call, I tell my partner on a double whistle, "I got it, [name]" and report the foul.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What's a C?

I find it kind of ironic that a small state that has produced multiple national championships in college basketball still insists on archaic structure for officiating high school ball.

The other irony is that your IAABO Board will probably insist that it's a financial issue with the schools...while the having the wealthiest county in the US (Fairfield County) within their state borders.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Agree with this.

I know this is a hypothetical for discussion, but who's primary this is isn't the most important factor here -- you want to get the foul. The lead who is focused on the play may not know whether the C is in position yet to take over their primary ... blow the whistle. If the C is in position to see the call, blow the whistle. As the lead, I would probably defer to the C on the double whistle, assuming that if the C has a whistle, then they were in position to see the play. If I'm the C and was in position to make this call, I tell my partner on a double whistle, "I got it, [name]" and report the foul.

Agreed.

The most important thing is that we get the foul. If the two partners want to turn it into a pi$$ing match about whose call it should have been later, fine. But get the call on the court.

[Toren]

This happened in my State Game this year. First whistle out of the gate, about 50 seconds into game time. I was the Old Trail, new Lead.

I was hauling down the court to beat the play and receive it. I beat the play down, but wasn't exactly standing still when the illegal contact occured.

I popped my whistle and hold for a second. I don't hear another whistle, I don't see my partner, so I assumed he didn't make it and I was a solo whistle. So I show "Block". I then see my partner, the C, who was blocked from my view by the offensive player and of course, he's signaling "Player Control"

My first ever BLARGE and it happened as the first whistle in my first ever State Game. Ugh. Humbling experience.

I'll try to post video of it, for those that are interested. I took a great deal away from that game in my video breakdown after the game.

You'll be happy to know that we bounced back in a big way after this embarassing moment. I can also tell you, that for a period of about 2 or 3 trips up the court and down the court, my body felt extremely hot. I had to mentally get that play out of my head and I just saying "Get the next one right".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What's a C?

Maybe you should not be in this conversation if you do not know what one is?

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

The C official is hauling down the court trying to catch the play and does a good job.

It's basically a 1 on 1 play, the teammates of each player are coming up the court, but they are barely breaking the half court mark. The illegal contact takes place outside the paint by about 1 foot or maybe half a foot, opposite the Lead. Both players hit the deck as a result of the illegal contact, so it's not a no-call situation.

Why? Players hitting the deck I hope is not the reason you call a foul or not. I hope you call a foul because there is illegal contact. Both players could be on their feet after the play and I would hope that if there is a foul, it would be called.

Originally Posted by Toren

The Lead thinks its my call cause it's the only play on the floor and I got the best look. The C thinks it's my call cause it originated in my area and it's outside the paint and I'm taking it all the way to the hoop.

Who's call is it and why?

One small edit: let's say you forgot to pre-game the situation.

It is both your call based on the angle you have. It is also in transition and I have never been under the impression or taught that there is a primary in transition. The C might see something on one side of the play and the L would see the play on the other side. Both of you could make the call if you feel there is a foul and should not wait on the other to make a call. Nothing wrong with a double whistle. And if the play is clearly not block/charge type of play then there is not much to wait on IMO.

Peace

[Toren]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why? Players hitting the deck I hope is not the reason you call a foul or not. I hope you call a foul because there is illegal contact. Both players could be on their feet after the play and I would hope that if there is a foul, it would be called.

I was trying to paint a picture, it's kind of hard to describe it. But yes the reason the foul was called was the illegal contact. But I was also wanting to point out that there needed to be a call made. The both bodies fall down was simply a detail to help someone envision it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

I was trying to paint a picture, it's kind of hard to describe it. But yes the reason the foul was called was the illegal contact. But I was also wanting to point out that there needed to be a call made. The both bodies fall down was simply a detail to help someone envision it.

I gotcha. I am just saying that anyone can call something in this situation. At least where I am and the way we teach we would want anyone to call a foul in that situation. The only person that would likely not be able to call something is the new T as they are rather far from the play in transition.

Peace