Hands-Bat Discussion AGAIN!

[Dukat]

I got into a discussion with my cousin which Umpires baseball about the ball hitting the hands on a swing and going fair. Since I only do softball and he only does baseball I could not quote him a rule for this. For you guys who have a FED baseball rulebook could you quote the hands not being part of the bat rule for me and give me location in book so I can quote him on his book and not mine.

[mcrowder]

There's no rule that states that the hands are not part of the bat.

There is also no rule that states that the toes, ears, or hipbone are not part of the bat.

Why would you need one. Hands are Hands. Bats are Bats.

Read the relevant rules about HBP - it does not say, "When a pitched ball strikes a batter, except of course on the hands, the ball is dead" It just says "When a pitched ball strikes a batter, the ball is dead," with the various rulings (swinging, not-swinging, ball, strike, etc.) coming after that.

[Dukat]

I totally agree with you on it but I know in one of my rulebooks it specifically states "The hands are not to be considered part of the bat" and I was hoping I could find that sentence again to prove my point and in the mean time hoping it was also in a baseball rulebook somewhere.

[mcrowder]

I guarantee it's not in ASA or OBR. Doubt it's in FED.

But alas, in Dixie, the craziest rulebook out there, you get 8.02F:

"(F) — When a pitched ball not struck at touches any part of the batter’s person or clothing while she is in the batter’s box. It does not matter if the ball strikes the ground before hitting her. The batter’s hands are not to be considered as part of the bat."

Of course, just as all the other rules that don't belong here are ... this is the section about BASERUNNING, not the section about BATTING.

If you ever can't find something in the Dixie book, look under the wrong section. (Catcher Obstruction on the batter is under baserunning! And, of course, they don't use the word obstruct - they use INTERFERE. Morons.)

[wadeintothem]

asa book specifically states hand are not part of the bat. 8.1.F. I didnt respond because he said fed. It is in asa.

[wadeintothem]

in fact, with a few exceptions - the dixie wording was likely directly copied from ASA (or visa versa).. they are almost identical.

[Dukat]

Thanks wade, I knew it was in one of my rulebooks but I couldnt find it. It is funny that we even have to argue the fact with people on this fact.

[SamNVa]

Actually mike,

it is in FED under rule 8.2.b which has basically the same wording as the rule tht you quoted for Dixie.

SamC

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by Dukat
Thanks wade, I knew it was in one of my rulebooks but I couldnt find it. It is funny that we even have to argue the fact with people on this fact.

It has to be the all time record for myth in ball. I dont know the history of the myth - maybe from an old play rule or something.. but i've heard it multiple times and I havent been around umping long.

I wonder if the girl who takes a good shot to the hands ever thinks that her hands were bat-like at the moment of impact

[mcrowder]

Well color me shocked. And here I was thinking Dixie was nuts for inserting such an unnecessary sentence.

What's the number on that ASA rule, by the way? Fed too.

Can't believe it's in the book now. Heck, I've been using that same retort to coaches for years (Coach says "It doesn't say in the rulebook that the hands aren't part of the bat", and I say "It doesn't say the nose isn't part of the bat either"). Guess I need a new one.

So where's my rule that tells me the nose is not part of the bat? If it's not in the rulebook, how am I to know it to be true?

[wadeintothem]

ASA is 8.1.F. - Page 105

"Guess I need a new one"

Your new one can be: "Yes it is coach"

[Dakota]

Fed softball, the rule is 8-1-2-b.

But the original request was for the rule cite in Feb baseball. I don't have a Fed smallball book.

[chuck chopper]

(I think some get confused when the batters hands (while in the strike zone) get hit. Either on a bunt, a swing, or just standing there. It is never a hit by pitch-take a base situation, and it is never a fair ball-run to first situation. I have seen comments on baseball side where if you swing ?, and are hit in the hands (even outside the strike zone) it is not a hit by pitch situation. I believe that was totally incorrect.

[JEL]

Dukat,
Hands are not part of the bat wording is in all softball rules I have seen, but not FED baseball. However FED 8-1-1-d states a batter becomes a runner when a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball. You will have to tell your cousin that he must use some common sense and realize "hands are part of the person", and not "part of the bat". Even dumb ole baseball people oughta be able to grasp that concept! (I know, but I am a dumb ole baseball person!)

[mick]

Originally posted by mcrowder
There's no rule that states that the hands are not part of the bat.

Ya think?

Little League Casebook [page 6]: Strike (Comment: "The hands ARE NOT part of the bat. The hands ARE part of the arm. Just look at any anatomy book."


mick