Any creepy referees in Denver area?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Another reason to stay away from girls/woman's basketball. Now if we could only get cheerleaders outlawed or moved to another gym and out of our way!

My sentiment exactly.

Peace

[Rich]

Wisconsin is raising licensing fees next year so that all 9000 officials can pay for their own background checks. What cost me $50 this year will cost me $80 next year. I'm not necessarily opposed to background checks but at the same time wonder how effective they are.

To be fair, I'll more than break even because the game rates for playoff contests are going up next season, as well. The increase is going to hit the subvarsity guys and those guys who don't work the postseason the hardest as it will look like a pure money-grab to them.

[Nevadaref]

As the officials are independent contractors, not employees of the state office or school district, background checks are not proper. I'm not giving my personal information to these people who are not my employer. Furthermore, I have no control over how they safeguard this information.
Over the past two years I convinced our state office that they have no need for our SS#. I'm certainly not going to backtrack now.
Lastly, the issue of who pays for it is huge. If the school people want the background check, then they would need to come up with the funds for it.

In the past five years, I've seen several reports of teachers having misconduct issues with students and they are employees and have background checks. So they aren't effective anyway.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Toren

And have worked with him several times. I never noticed anything unusual and I have a pretty good eye for seeing everything on the court. I'm also well aware of stuff off the court.

Toren

It appears that you aren't as aware as you think!

[Blindolbat]

I'm still trying to find out how this is even possible. Hand the ball to a player with two hands and have both hands brush against their chest. This seems very awkward and near impossible unless you're looking right at the person while you hand them the ball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

...Lastly, the issue of who pays for it is huge. If the school people want the background check, then they would need to come up with the funds for it.
....

I'm sure we have an official in Oregon who disagrees with this sentiment. He believes officials should absorb all costs associated the privilege of officiating basketball games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm sure we have an official in Oregon who disagrees with this sentiment. He believes officials should absorb all costs associated the privilege of officiating basketball games.

I'm fine with background checks. I understand why the state wants to eliminate some people and also wants to limit liability. Unlike Nevada, I am willing to subject myself to such a check. I just want to know why officials end up bearing the costs of such things and it isn't passed through to the schools.

To me, it's the same answer to one of my favorite jokes: Because they can.

(There's part of me that wonders why officials need to pay anything to officiate games. Why do we? Same answer - "Because they can.")

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm fine with background checks. I understand why the state wants to eliminate some people and also wants to limit liability. Unlike Nevada, I am willing to subject myself to such a check. I just want to know why officials end up bearing the costs of such things and it isn't passed through to the schools.

To me, it's the same answer to one of my favorite jokes: Because they can.

(There's part of me that wonders why officials need to pay anything to officiate games. Why do we? Same answer - "Because they can.")

I'm still trying to figure why officials have to pay so much for camps.

One thing I liked about Ed Rush (PAC-12, not current NBA ref) is that he didn't believe officials should have to pay to try out for a conference. Pay for teaching camps, yes, try-out camps, no. He said part of the reason coordinators get paid by conferences is to find officials to work.

It's crazy. Conference supervisor gets paid by the host to provide 3 officials/game for X amount of games. Then 40-80 officials pay the supervisor $300-$600 to participate in the camp.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm sure we have an official in Oregon who disagrees with this sentiment. He believes officials should absorb all costs associated the privilege of officiating basketball games.

Yes, Oregon does charge us. It is something like $3 every 2-3 years...they don't require one every year.

And it isn't a privilege, it is a job requirement. Many jobs have requirements...degrees, licenses, certifications, dues, etc. And then, you get a level of pay that is associated with meeting the requirements. Cut out some requirements and you get a lower pay.

From the state's Athletic Officials Handbook...

54. Officials – Background Checks
A. All officials who wish to be certified by the OSAA shall submit to a criminal conviction history screening that will determine whether they have engaged in any Prohibited Conduct. Any denial of certification as a result of this screening may be waived or modified by the OSAA Executive Board in individual cases if it determines in its sole discretion that there exist circumstances justifying such a waiver or modification.
B. Cost of this background check shall be included in the cost of certification for the official. (Revised Fall 2006)

And who pays is really irrelevant, becasue, in the end end, it is all the same. The schools are just going to look at the total bill when they consider how much they can afford for officials. They don't really care whether that money is going to game fees, travel, or a background check. If they cover the background check, they're going to fight for lower game fees or travel. It really doesn't change anything.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm still trying to figure why officials have to pay so much for camps.

One thing I liked about Ed Rush (PAC-12, not current NBA ref) is that he didn't believe officials should have to pay to try out for a conference. Pay for teaching camps, yes, try-out camps, no. He said part of the reason coordinators get paid by conferences is to find officials to work.

It's crazy. Conference supervisor gets paid by the host to provide 3 officials/game for X amount of games. Then 40-80 officials pay the supervisor $300-$600 to participate in the camp.

I think Ed Rush is absolutely right. It's trickled down to the HS level, too. I worked a junior college game with a HS assignor a while back (it may have even been a season ago) and he mentioned I did a good job and that he could use me for some games. When I followed up, he told me he had a camp in the summer he wanted me to come to before he'd assign me.

Really? For 2 or 3 HS dates? You can't get a feel for my work WORKING WITH ME for 40 clock minutes of basketball?

I have already paid for 3 camps this summer and I feel that camps are an important way for me to fine tune my game -- but I won't be adding a fourth.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Not a bad idea to step back afterward either.

+1

NCAAW CCA manual dictates the ball be handed to a player for a throwin along the frontcourt endline. When I am the L doing this, I take a step back to separate myself from the player.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, Oregon does charge us. It is something like $3 every 2-3 years...they don't require one every year.

And it isn't a privilege, it is a job requirement. Many jobs have requirements...degrees, licenses, certifications, dues, etc. And then, you get a level of pay that is associated with meeting the requirements. Cut out some requirements and you get a lower pay.

From the state's Athletic Officials Handbook...


And who pays is really irrelevant, becasue, in the end end, it is all the same. The schools are just going to look at the total bill when they consider how much they can afford for officials. They don't really care whether that money is going to game fees, travel, or a background check. If they cover the background check, they're going to fight for lower game fees or travel. It really doesn't change anything.

Are coaches required to directly pay for their background checks? Teachers?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Are coaches required to directly pay for their background checks? Teachers?

I googled random states - all of them I checked (I stopped after 7, as a good statistician would) do require background checks for teachers (which includes coaches) and 6 of the 7 had the school paying.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Are coaches required to directly pay for their background checks? Teachers?

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I googled random states - all of them I checked (I stopped after 7, as a good statistician would) do require background checks for teachers (which includes coaches) and 6 of the 7 had the school paying.

Employee vs. independent contractor. We're a vendor to the school...actually several schools. Not really that much different than a plumber or other repair person. That makes it more upon us to meet the requirements of the job. If we were employees, then I'd expect them to pay for it. When I hire a vendor (it could even be a company with employees), I expect their certifications to tell me all I need to know about them and I shouldn't be expected to do a background check on their employees. I expect them to have already done so. That is what is happening here...the schools are contracting out the job of officiating and expect to hire an outside service (each of you are a company of one) to provide that can just show up and work, having met all the necessary qualifications.

Would you rather fill out background forms for each and every school (and take a pay cut from each one as they would have to do to cover the cost of it) or pay $3 extra as part of your certification that provides all of the schools with a guarantee that if they stick with certified officials, they're getting officials who have had a background check.

It's $3 people...and not even every year. Now, if your state is charging a lot more than that, perhaps the real issue isn't who is paying but why they're charging so much or doing it so frequently (people that are ok one day are rarely not ok the next...there is no need to do them yearly).

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Are coaches required to directly pay for their background checks? Teachers?

Yes...at least I had to pay for both. When they instituted the checks for teachers, I had already had 12 years in the District. They deducted the cost from my check. When I got back into coaching football, I had to pay the $75 dollar fee myself.

Interestingly, it was $75 for the check to be a coach, but only $54 for the check to get a concealed weapons permit.