Any creepy referees in Denver area?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He already shared all the same info with the same people to sign up as an official. What else is he sharing? That specific risk isn't increased because of a background check.

Not true...at least not here. All I gave my local association was an address and SSN...the background check requires DL#, DOB, previous addresses, names of family members (spouse, etc), and fingerprints.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Not true...at least not here. All I gave my local association was an address and SSN...the background check requires DL#, DOB, previous addresses, names of family members (spouse, etc), and fingerprints.

None of that, aside from DOB, is requested for ours.

Perhaps there lies the real difference....not all background checks that we're talking about are the same.

I'd agree they don't need all of that. Name, SSN, DOB. That should be enough for a basic screen to see if anything shows up.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

None of that, aside from DOB, is requested for ours.

Perhaps there lies the real difference....not all background checks that we're talking about are the same.

I'd agree they don't need all of that. Name, SSN, DOB. That should be enough for a basic screen to see if anything shows up.

Unless I'm being paid by my officials association (rare, but possible), why would my officials association need my SSN?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Unless I'm being paid by my officials association (rare, but possible), why would my officials association need my SSN?

Many associations collect game fees from the schools, etc. and then pay the umpires and issue 1099s.

Not where I live, but a place where I used to live.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Unless I'm being paid by my officials association (rare, but possible), why would my officials association need my SSN?

That's the only way to get paid in Virginia if you want to ref HS basketball.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Many associations collect game fees from the schools, etc. and then pay the umpires and issue 1099s.

Not where I live, but a place where I used to live.

That is how it is done out here.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

None of that, aside from DOB, is requested for ours.

Perhaps there lies the real difference....not all background checks that we're talking about are the same.

I'd agree they don't need all of that. Name, SSN, DOB. That should be enough for a basic screen to see if anything shows up.

Like I said earlier, the background check here for reffing/coaching and the one for getting a concealed weapons permit are basically the same thing. Only the CCW permit is cheaper.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Unless I'm being paid by my officials association (rare, but possible), why would my officials association need my SSN?

Originally Posted by Rich

Many associations collect game fees from the schools, etc. and then pay the umpires and issue 1099s.

Not where I live, but a place where I used to live.

What Rich said...they pay us on behalf of the schools and issue the 1099s. The schools don't ask for or get our SSNs. I'd rather have one organization get them than 100 schools.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is how it is done out here.

And I said umpires -- I meant officials. Clearly my mind is in baseball mode - I've worked 9 games in the last 5 days.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

Many associations collect game fees from the schools, etc. and then pay the umpires and issue 1099s.

Not where I live, but a place where I used to live.

Ok, so less rare where you are... but I still ask. UNLESS I'm being paid by my association, why would they need my SSN?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'd rather have one organization get them than 100 schools.

I see your point there, but schools are USED to having employees, and have protocols and programs for keeping private information private.

Associations are very often just an amalgamation of ex-officials pitching in... the guy in charge of the information is very likely 6 different guys over 10 years - and none of them trained in information security.

Given the choice between 100 schools who are able to keep things secure, and 6 average joes who have no clue how to (or even that it's important), I choose the schools.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Everything is negotiable. Officiating is a business. If you're willing to just sit there and take what they're offering, then that's your perogative. But if a school wants to start taking money out of my pocket, I can choose to stop providing the service, or raise my fees to cover my costs. If you get other officials to stand with you, it can work that way.

Sure, but the way it really works is, "Well, if you don't want to do it, someone else is willing to."

I'm ok with it, it is what it is. But at some point, they have to realize that you're going to start weeding out good officials. $30 here and there starts to add up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, the information you provide to sign up and be certified is also used for the background check and you're worried about that? Or are you worried about what your background check might show?

There is nothing I provide for the background check that isn't already required to just work. Seems like you should really have a problem signing up to be an official if that is the case.

If you're worried about what someone might find about about you (that is probably in a public record somewhere) I'm wondering what you're hiding.

You completely misread what I wrote. I have no felonies or even misdemeanor convictions. But frankly, I don't want the entire world knowing about my traffic offenses. While they aren't an issue for officiating, they would show up on a background check.

Other things that may show up: credit history, past tax issues, divorce filings, custody filings, etc. None of those things are disqualifying events, so they aren't the public's business: yet I know for a fact they will show up on a background check.

So, again, how comprehensive is a background check going to be? Who reviews it to determine whether I have any disqualifying events? How long does that get stored? Who has access to it while it's stored? How secure is that storage?

Frankly, assuming someone has something to hide simply because they want to safeguard personal information is a bit Orwellian.

[BayStateRef]

There are no background or criminal record checks (yet) in Massachusetts public schools for officials. But the Catholic schools started requiring a criminal record check a couple of years ago. I know some other sports where their private associations have started to require these checks.

Massachusetts limits disclosure to criminal convictions. Organizations that access these records must have a specific procedure in place that describes who gets the records, what they will do with them, etc. Youth sports groups are required to obtain criminal information on coaches and some of them extend this to officials.

But I know of very few groups that have clear policies as to what is a disqualifying crime. Is a shoplifting conviction from 30 years ago? How about a bar fight from college? I have seen one policy that says any sex crime is disqualifying...which would include something like urinating in public if it is charged as "public exposure." No matter that it was after a night of heavy drinking as a teenager many years ago. I believe that in Pennsylvania a conviction for fraud or embezzlement is disqualifying to be a sports official.

I don't have unsupervised access to students, so I don't understand why I should have anyone looking at my (non-existent) criminal record.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Employee vs. independent contractor. We're a vendor to the school...actually several schools. Not really that much different than a plumber or other repair person. That makes it more upon us to meet the requirements of the job. If we were employees, then I'd expect them to pay for it. When I hire a vendor (it could even be a company with employees), I expect their certifications to tell me all I need to know about them and I shouldn't be expected to do a background check on their employees. I expect them to have already done so. That is what is happening here...the schools are contracting out the job of officiating and expect to hire an outside service (each of you are a company of one) to provide that can just show up and work, having met all the necessary qualifications.

Given that the official is an independent contractor, there is no employer who is entitled to conduct a background check. In my area, the officials are also not employees of the local association, so even the association can't do them.
So this is not akin to a plumbing company being hired by the schools to perform work. Yet even if it were, the different companies could decide on their own whether to conduct checks and the schools could then select which company to do business with. Since there is only one association in my area, there is no competitor. Thus the schools can either deal with us or go find officials on their own. They have opted to contract with the association, and since the business is done through a contract, all the officials group has to do is not agree to put a background check provision in the contract.