Coach on court

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And since you didn't penalize him by properly assessing a technical foul, he will do the same thing again to you or another crew. You missed a golden opportunity to take corrective action for the good of all officials in your area.

I think if he hadn't of listened right away to our direction to go back to his bench then I would've used that "golden opportunity." However, he listened right away and realized perhaps he shouldn't be there.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

Sigh...

OK, I suppose we did not say, specifically, what kind of games we were discussing. If you are calling youth ball, I can definitely see your point, and even agree to some extent, especially early in the season. And in a youth game, I'm going to be much less inclined to issue a T for a coach coming out in a time out to try to discuss something - and assuming he's been a good boy so far I'm likely to explain about the time out box, and where he can and cannot be, as well as trying to address his question if possible.

I assumed we were discussing HS, JH, or other actual organized games when I made my statement above.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

Wow.

So by not letting the coach come out onto the court, I/we have suddenly become officials who are just in it for a paycheck??? Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

And I will ask this question again: While you are having your 2 minute long conversation with Coach A out in the middle of the key at his end of the court, just what wonderful thought do you think are going through the mind of Coach B down at the other end of the court?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Wow.

So by not letting the coach come out onto the court, I/we have suddenly become officials who are just in it for a paycheck??? Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

And I will ask this question again: While you are having your 2 minute long conversation with Coach A out in the middle of the key at his end of the court, just what wonderful thought do you think are going through the mind of Coach B down at the other end of the court?

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

Yeah, but that's because you're just in it for the paycheck.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have supervisors who will jump deep in my a$$ if I let a coach come way out on to the court to talk to us during a time-out. They want coaches staying in the bench area.

I can understand that but as was mentioned in one of the earlier posts, if we're where we're supposed to be as the time out starts - or reasonably close to it - the coach won't have to come out onto the court that far in the first place. The furthest away one of us will be from his/her bench is the opposite side of the center circle on the division line.

When coaches want to extend conversations - something more than asking about a rule or finding out where the ball is being put into play - I'll call over an AC from the other team so they can hear the conversation. 99% of the time that stops the dialogue because if they want to speak any longer than ten seconds it's usually to try to gain an advantage or get on my nerves.

[Rob_K]

Couple of clarifications. We're an 8th grade team playing up at the freshman level. Winter stuff is over, so this is a spring club league. Nothing too serious here. I also live in a big city, so seeing the same officials from game to game is rare.

We've played close to 200+ games in the past two years and this is the first time an official warned me about coming to talk with them on the court. Granted, I usually don't have to walk very far, this was an exception.

I was looking for the NFHS rule that dealt with a coach coming on the court and I'm assuming it's the "Coaching Box" rule. However, I wasn't aware of the officials positioning requirements during a time-out. It wouldn't have been an issue if one of them had been closer to my bench.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

I wasn't aware of the officials positioning requirements during a time-out.

IAABO Mechanics Two Person Game: Time Out (not an intermission): One official should be table side, on the jump ball circle, on the division line (thirty second time out); or opposite the table, on the jump ball circle, on the division line (sixty second time out). There will be exceptions, especially late in the game, if the officials want to get together for a pow-wow to discuss something about the game.

I'll let someone who's not from Connecticut, The Land That Time Forgot, to give you the three person game positions during a time out.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'll let someone who's not from Connecticut, The Land That Time Forgot, to give you the three person game positions during a time out.

Three-person...

Full = one official on each of the low boxes on the FT lane line farthest from the benches. Official who will administer the next play has the ball at the spot where the ball with be put in play.

30 = One official at the top of each FT circle. Official who administers the next play does the same as a full.

If the next play takes place on the table side of the court, administering official holds the ball on the court in line with that spot and in line with the other officials. If it's a FT, the administering official stands on the FT line.

Originally Posted by Rob_K

I wasn't aware of the officials positioning requirements during a time-out.

This also means if you're ever unsure of where the ball will be put in play when you're in a time out, find the official holding the ball. If the crew is doing what it's supposed to be doing, that official will be at or across from the spot.

[rockyroad]

Do you guys - BillyMac and JetMetFan - really do that during spring/summer league games?

Most of the time doing those games, I am working with a newer official so we use timeouts to discuss stuff ourselves. I can't remember the last time I worked a non-season/non-camp game and we went to the designated time-out positions.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Do you guys really do that during spring/summer league games?

I seldom work off season games, maybe just a few AAU games, but I do work Catholic middle school games on weekends during the season. And in this little corner of Connecticut, we go where we're supposed to go during time outs, and intermissions. We will get together for a few more pow-wows than during a high school varsity game, but the discussion will be about "business", the game, the coaches, interesting plays in the game, tough calls, etc. We will not be discussing anything else, i.e., Christmas gifts, the weather, politics, gas prices, etc.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Couple of clarifications. We're an 8th grade team playing up at the freshman level. Winter stuff is over, so this is a spring club league. Nothing too serious here. I also live in a big city, so seeing the same officials from game to game is rare.

We've played close to 200+ games in the past two years and this is the first time an official warned me about coming to talk with them on the court. Granted, I usually don't have to walk very far, this was an exception.

I was looking for the NFHS rule that dealt with a coach coming on the court and I'm assuming it's the "Coaching Box" rule. However, I wasn't aware of the officials positioning requirements during a time-out. It wouldn't have been an issue if one of them had been closer to my bench.

Spring ball, you can pretty much scrap the timeout positioning requirements. Normally, one will be at the throw in spot, and the other at the division line. But if they're not, they're not. They're likely discussing a play; possibly discussing the same play you wanted clarification on.

I'm not saying I would have handled it the way they did; I have no idea, really. I am saying I can understand it, and they have a little more rules backing than you do. Not a major deal, I know, but just FYI.

Like rocky said, spring and summer is a time to work with newer officials, and it's not unusual for me to get with my partner to offer some encouragement.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

do you guys - billymac and jetmetfan - really do that during spring/summer league games?

Most of the time doing those games, i am working with a newer official so we use timeouts to discuss stuff ourselves. I can't remember the last time i worked a non-season/non-camp game and we went to the designated time-out positions.

+1

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Two Person Game: Time Out (not an intermission): One official should be table side, on the jump ball circle, on the division line (thirty second time out); or opposite the table, on the jump ball circle, on the division line (sixty second time out).....

What's the positioning for 2-man for the last minute of halftime and in between quarters?

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

Thanks just doing as the Romans do here in Rome.

Seriously though if just doing the job of calling the game is the total extent of your interest and sense of responsibility that fine. I just do not like the idea that is put out that there is never situation in which coaches and officials should be having long conversations. We coach games with coaches of all age groups here, run officiating clinics for youth officials/minor officials who are also the kids we are officiating in older games, 50% or more of our officials in our association are/were also coaches at some level or work in a leadership capacity in minor basketball associations. If we aren't taking every opportunity we can to have conversations to make the game better or better understood who is?

Without getting into what ifs forever. If Coach A comes out to talk, or I'm standing by the timeout area talking, or a magic carpet becomes invovled and Coach B wants to talk too? In the million to one shot that both want to be reasonable and are strictly curious about rules then I would work it out. In any other situation I'm not sure what Coach B is thinking matters to me at that point. Not sure what your point here is??