Coach on court

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

I can appreciate your perspective. I will say that here, in a mid-sized metro area, there are quite a few summer coaches who I'm starting to see regularly enough to be recognized. For the most part, if anyone asks a question, it'll get answered. Quickly, though. It won't take more than just a few seconds. Anything longer than that and it's turning into either a rules clinic or a debate; I'm not doing either of those in a game.

I have been known to give a prolonged explanation post-game, but only rarely and only when approached with the appropriate demeanor.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

Sigh...

OK, I suppose we did not say, specifically, what kind of games we were discussing. If you are calling youth ball, I can definitely see your point, and even agree to some extent, especially early in the season. And in a youth game, I'm going to be much less inclined to issue a T for a coach coming out in a time out to try to discuss something - and assuming he's been a good boy so far I'm likely to explain about the time out box, and where he can and cannot be, as well as trying to address his question if possible.

I assumed we were discussing HS, JH, or other actual organized games when I made my statement above.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

Wow.

So by not letting the coach come out onto the court, I/we have suddenly become officials who are just in it for a paycheck??? Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

And I will ask this question again: While you are having your 2 minute long conversation with Coach A out in the middle of the key at his end of the court, just what wonderful thought do you think are going through the mind of Coach B down at the other end of the court?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Wow.

So by not letting the coach come out onto the court, I/we have suddenly become officials who are just in it for a paycheck??? Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

And I will ask this question again: While you are having your 2 minute long conversation with Coach A out in the middle of the key at his end of the court, just what wonderful thought do you think are going through the mind of Coach B down at the other end of the court?

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

Yeah, but that's because you're just in it for the paycheck.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

Maybe your sample size is too small. Have more conversations or start some and see if you get better results.

Don't feed the troll!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Maybe your sample size is too small. Have more conversations or start some and see if you get better results.

Don't feed the troll!

My sample size is very broad. In season, I work for 6 different supervisors plus a 7th guy who assigns games for a small Christian college. And I go camping every off-season. And I work AAU ball every off-season. Plus my local facility is a stop on the Nike boys' EYBL circuit. So I see coaches from all over the country from various levels.

And none of those 7 guys who give me paychecks want their officials holding extended conversations with one coach during a game. And none of them want coaches out at the center circle or the free throw circles.

I've had plenty of pleasant conversations with coaches away from the court.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

Thanks just doing as the Romans do here in Rome.

Seriously though if just doing the job of calling the game is the total extent of your interest and sense of responsibility that fine. I just do not like the idea that is put out that there is never situation in which coaches and officials should be having long conversations. We coach games with coaches of all age groups here, run officiating clinics for youth officials/minor officials who are also the kids we are officiating in older games, 50% or more of our officials in our association are/were also coaches at some level or work in a leadership capacity in minor basketball associations. If we aren't taking every opportunity we can to have conversations to make the game better or better understood who is?

Without getting into what ifs forever. If Coach A comes out to talk, or I'm standing by the timeout area talking, or a magic carpet becomes invovled and Coach B wants to talk too? In the million to one shot that both want to be reasonable and are strictly curious about rules then I would work it out. In any other situation I'm not sure what Coach B is thinking matters to me at that point. Not sure what your point here is??

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Thanks just doing as the Romans do here in Rome.

Seriously though if just doing the job of calling the game is the total extent of your interest and sense of responsibility that fine. I just do not like the idea that is put out that there is never situation in which coaches and officials should be having long conversations. We coach games with coaches of all age groups here, run officiating clinics for youth officials/minor officials who are also the kids we are officiating in older games, 50% or more of our officials in our association are/were also coaches at some level or work in a leadership capacity in minor basketball associations. If we aren't taking every opportunity we can to have conversations to make the game better or better understood who is?

Without getting into what ifs forever. If Coach A comes out to talk, or I'm standing by the timeout area talking, or a magic carpet becomes invovled and Coach B wants to talk too? In the million to one shot that both want to be reasonable and are strictly curious about rules then I would work it out. In any other situation I'm not sure what Coach B is thinking matters to me at that point. Not sure what your point here is??

No way. Don't pull that "someone crapped on me, so I get to crap on you" garbage. Unless you are a 7th grade girl, that's just not gonna work.

And again, I never said not to talk with Coaches. But there is a time and place for it. Out in the middle of the court during a timeout is not the time or the place.

And the other Coach - if you do decide to have that long conversation out in the middle of the court - is going to figure that you are in that coaches pocket and he is going to get screwed. Or worse, is going to want to have his own conversation at the next timeout, and the next, and the next...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

No way. Don't pull that "someone crapped on me, so I get to crap on you" garbage. Unless you are a 7th grade girl, that's just not gonna work.

My 7th grade daughter doesn't pull this.

My 1st grade son does, but he doesn't get away with it.