Coach on court

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

I am the head coach. My style isn't to yell or get all freaked out, in fact, I probably only asked for clarification once or twice the entire game. Didn't come on the court for those clarifications.

I just wanted clarification on a call that happened right before the opposing team's time out. It helps me instruct my players as sometimes they don't understand what they did wrong. It's usually quick and painless.

I've been coaching 10 years and this is the first time an official threatened to T me up for approaching them with a question. As I walked on the court, I said, "Can I ask a quick question?"

Not a huge deal, just got me wondering what you guys had to say about it.

If I am on that game, I am stopping you from coming out towards me/us. I will come over to you briefly...the problem with letting you come out there and have a mini-conference with me/us is simple - what does it look like to the other coach? Would you want me to be doing that with your opponent?

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If I am on that game, I am stopping you from coming out towards me/us. I will come over to you briefly...the problem with letting you come out there and have a mini-conference with me/us is simple - what does it look like to the other coach? Would you want me to be doing that with your opponent?

Happened to me and my partner. During halftime, coach is walking towards us but we thought he was walking over to talk to a parent/fan/AD that we might have been near. He stops right in front of us and starts into us about something. Not very animated or overly angry. As soon as we realize his purpose we send him right back and tell him this was inappropriate behavior. I don't tolerate that during timeouts, halftimes, etc.

[Pantherdreams]

Now this might get back to a theme from a different thread about the minority getting the majority treatment but . . .

If coaches want to communicate with officials and understanding communications have to happen in a timely and appropriate manner, there are no really significant opportunities during the playing of the game to have a protracted conversation about rules confusion, situations, and just general inquiry. During the momentary pauses in play coaches basically get a comment or question. I get a response in and if they aren't happy they get a parting comment that ends up registered for later, gets ignored or if negative gets them a stop sign/T. Thats really it.

Timeouts and halftime or post game seem like the only times to me where any sort of protracted conversation/ explanation can go on. I'm not saying coaches get to run over everyone, or chase us around the building bitching and demanding answers but if you are going to have a positive conversation and interaction that genuinely improves the situation/understanding level/ or quality of the game. When else is going to take place?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

there are no really significant opportunities during the playing of the game to have a protracted conversation about rules confusion, situations, and just general inquiry.

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

Timeouts and halftime or post game seem like the only times to me where any sort of protracted conversation/ explanation can go on. I'm not saying coaches get to run over everyone, or chase us around the building bitching and demanding answers but if you are going to have a positive conversation and interaction that genuinely improves the situation/understanding level/ or quality of the game. When else is going to take place?

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

True, but if I will rarely refuse to answer a question if approached politely. There is either more to the OP than we have here, or (just as likely) at least one of the officials was relatively new and not ready to really talk to coaches.

It's also possible they knew they kicked the call and really didn't want to own up to it.

Then again....

There are a lot of possibilities here, I guess, so I'll stop rambling now.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

I can appreciate your perspective. I will say that here, in a mid-sized metro area, there are quite a few summer coaches who I'm starting to see regularly enough to be recognized. For the most part, if anyone asks a question, it'll get answered. Quickly, though. It won't take more than just a few seconds. Anything longer than that and it's turning into either a rules clinic or a debate; I'm not doing either of those in a game.

I have been known to give a prolonged explanation post-game, but only rarely and only when approached with the appropriate demeanor.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

Sigh...

OK, I suppose we did not say, specifically, what kind of games we were discussing. If you are calling youth ball, I can definitely see your point, and even agree to some extent, especially early in the season. And in a youth game, I'm going to be much less inclined to issue a T for a coach coming out in a time out to try to discuss something - and assuming he's been a good boy so far I'm likely to explain about the time out box, and where he can and cannot be, as well as trying to address his question if possible.

I assumed we were discussing HS, JH, or other actual organized games when I made my statement above.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

Wow.

So by not letting the coach come out onto the court, I/we have suddenly become officials who are just in it for a paycheck??? Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

And I will ask this question again: While you are having your 2 minute long conversation with Coach A out in the middle of the key at his end of the court, just what wonderful thought do you think are going through the mind of Coach B down at the other end of the court?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Wow.

So by not letting the coach come out onto the court, I/we have suddenly become officials who are just in it for a paycheck??? Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

And I will ask this question again: While you are having your 2 minute long conversation with Coach A out in the middle of the key at his end of the court, just what wonderful thought do you think are going through the mind of Coach B down at the other end of the court?

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Nice job of completely crapping all over someone because they don't see it your way.

Thanks just doing as the Romans do here in Rome.

Seriously though if just doing the job of calling the game is the total extent of your interest and sense of responsibility that fine. I just do not like the idea that is put out that there is never situation in which coaches and officials should be having long conversations. We coach games with coaches of all age groups here, run officiating clinics for youth officials/minor officials who are also the kids we are officiating in older games, 50% or more of our officials in our association are/were also coaches at some level or work in a leadership capacity in minor basketball associations. If we aren't taking every opportunity we can to have conversations to make the game better or better understood who is?

Without getting into what ifs forever. If Coach A comes out to talk, or I'm standing by the timeout area talking, or a magic carpet becomes invovled and Coach B wants to talk too? In the million to one shot that both want to be reasonable and are strictly curious about rules then I would work it out. In any other situation I'm not sure what Coach B is thinking matters to me at that point. Not sure what your point here is??

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Blindolbat

Happened to me and my partner. During halftime, coach is walking towards us but we thought he was walking over to talk to a parent/fan/AD that we might have been near. He stops right in front of us and starts into us about something. Not very animated or overly angry. As soon as we realize his purpose we send him right back and tell him this was inappropriate behavior. I don't tolerate that during timeouts, halftimes, etc.

And since you didn't penalize him by properly assessing a technical foul, he will do the same thing again to you or another crew. You missed a golden opportunity to take corrective action for the good of all officials in your area.

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And since you didn't penalize him by properly assessing a technical foul, he will do the same thing again to you or another crew. You missed a golden opportunity to take corrective action for the good of all officials in your area.

I think if he hadn't of listened right away to our direction to go back to his bench then I would've used that "golden opportunity." However, he listened right away and realized perhaps he shouldn't be there.