Inadvertent Whistle?

[rekent]

On one of those awful multi-purpose courts that is marked for every sport imaginable...

A1 is dribbling backwards and steps on a line near the division line that the T mistakes as actually being the division line. T blows his whistle, mechanically signals backcourt and verbalizes "Backco..." at which point he realizes his mistake and looks at L with a deer in the headlights look. They talk it over and T comes out, calls an inadvertent whistle and gives the ball back to A at the POI.

B coach goes crazy. "I officiated for X years, you can't do that!" Coach's rationale was that the mechanic had been given and official had begun verbalizing backcourt.

I know it is not a CE, but is an inadvertent whistle allowed here? Admittedly, I am rather weak in this area.

[just another ref]

Sure it's allowed. Mechanics are a means of communication. By rule the mechanic itself means nothing.

I can't think of any place where the rule book states that a signal commits one to a call.

Originally Posted by rekent

I know it is not a CE, but is an inadvertent whistle allowed here? Admittedly, I am rather weak in this area.

Absolutely. "Coach, be quiet. Inadvertent whistle, ball OOB right here". The faster you resume play the better. Don't listen to the coach, just correct the mistake and move on.

[rekent]

I thought it was rather absurd, but at what point there can the official realize he screwed up? Anytime before the completion of the throw-in by B that would have resulted from the backcourt call (or in more general terms, before the ball becomes live again)?

Originally Posted by rekent

I thought it was rather absurd, but at what point there can the official realize he screwed up? Anytime before the completion of the throw-in by B that would have resulted from the backcourt call (or in more general terms, before the ball becomes live again)?

If he screws up he will either know immediately like in your original story, or he will realize it once the coach who the call is going against colorfully reminds him.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If he screws up he will either know immediately like in your original story, or he will realize it once the coach who the call is going against colorfully reminds him.

Coach apparently had checked out for a few moments and didn't say a word. The player stopped, looked down and pointed at his feet, but wasn't sure what to do because he didn't want to get T'd. (very fast trigger official).

Luckily I wasn't on-court for this one, just watching. I keep waiting for my brilliant screwup like this one (hopefully not worse)...

Originally Posted by rekent

I keep waiting for my brilliant screwup like this one (hopefully not worse)...

My brilliant screwup happened a few months ago. I was T, tableside, team A has the ball, coach B says "timeout". I didn't check who was calling the timeout, just blew my whistle. I swear coach B was trying to trick me because he knew I was a green official. Coach A went beserk, yelling "he can't do that!!!" I knew the rule was I had to administer the timeout once I granted it so I had to deal with it. Embarrassing to say the least. If that happens again, I will just yell "inadvertent whistle, ball OOB" and try to get the ball back into play before anyone realizes.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If that happens again, I will just yell "inadvertent whistle, ball OOB" and try to get the ball back into play before anyone realizes.

Although at that point the ball is dead anyway and B coach can still call his timeout so you will likely have to listen to it from A coach regardless.

Originally Posted by rekent

Although at that point the ball is dead anyway and B coach can still call his timeout so you will likely have to listen to it from A coach regardless.

Correct. I am more vigilant now

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If that happens again, I will just yell "inadvertent whistle, ball OOB" and try to get the ball back into play before anyone realizes.

Are you advocating not following what you know to be the proper ruling in a situation simply to save yourself some embarrassment? I can't condone that.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Sure it's allowed. Mechanics are a means of communication. By rule the mechanic itself means nothing.

I can't think of any place where the rule book states that a signal commits one to a call.

I can think of one!
Bad Woody, bad, bad. (Channeling my inner JR in his memory.)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I can think of one!

no you can't

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I can think of one!

4.19.8 SITUATION C: A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball.
Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter
A1 returns one foot to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the
other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is (a) successful, or (b) not successful.
RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it
is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul.
The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal
is scored; play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for
Team B from anywhere along the end line. In (b), the point of interruption is a try
in flight; therefore the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-36)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rekent

....B coach goes crazy. "I officiated for X years, you can't do that!" Coach's rationale was that the mechanic had been given and official had begun verbalizing backcourt.

I know it is not a CE, but is an inadvertent whistle allowed here? Admittedly, I am rather weak in this area.

That coach was not an official any amount of years if he's trying to pass along that line of bulls**t.

[HokiePaul]

This makes me wonder how certain violations can be changed after signaled, but others can't.

It is generally accepted that a mistake (official blows whistle using the wrong line) can be taken back as an inadvertant whistle.

An official can reverse an out of bounds violation call (based on information from his/her partner).

Can an official reverse a travel or double dribble call ... I've never seen it done. Say the Trail is in the back court on a fast break and calls what appears from his view to be a double dribble. The Center/Lead who is in front of the play has a better view is 100% certain (perhaps along with the coaches) that the play was not a double dribble. Can the Center/Lead approach his/her partner and offer information that would allow them to change the call?

And are there any fouls where the call can be changed after the fact? I know you can upgrade to a Intentional/Flagrant after discussing with partners, but I can't think of any situation where you could reverse a foul call to a no call based on additional information.