Rutgers fires basketball coach after release of video showing player abuse, gay slurs

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would not compare Bobby Knight to Rice on any level For one Knight was only accused of one incident and acted like most coaches at the time. And most of all Knight won 3 titles. Rice cannot even win the Big East Conference Title and is seen in multiple situations throwing stuff at players and hitting them in the head with a basketball. Also it does not help that he called them gay slurs. Not even close.

Peace

Bobby Knight has made plenty of inappropriate comments. One that comes to mind is one he made when being interviewed by Connie Chung. He was talking about some perceived bad calls made by officials and he said, ""I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." Women's groups were outraged. If he said that on a national telecast that he knew that everyone would see, I can only imagine what he said off camera. I think that if Bobby Knight's Indiana career had been when everyone had a video camera on their phone, we would have seen similar footage to the Rutgers incident. And who cares how many wins he had...... that is completely irrelevant to this topic about how kids are treated.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Bobby Knight has made plenty of inappropriate comments. One that comes to mind is one he made when being interviewed by Connie Chung. He was talking about some perceived bad calls made by officials and he said, ""I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." Women's groups were outraged. If he said that on a national telecast that he knew that everyone would see, I can only imagine what he said off camera. I think that if Bobby Knight's Indiana career had been when everyone had a video camera on their phone, we would have seen similar footage to the Rutgers incident. And who cares how many wins he had...... that is completely irrelevant to this topic about how kids are treated.

It matters how many wins he has because there was a comparison with Rice and Knight. There is no comparison.

Making inappropriate comments in an interview still has nothing to do with what you called your kids and whether you throw a ball at the head of your players while in practice in this day and age. I do not care what women's groups were outraged by as Black groups were outraged by things Rupp said or other coaches that would not allow players that did not look like them. Those are not the same things as it relates to why Rice was fired.

I am very sure that coaches from the 70s, 80s and early 90s did and said a lot of things to players, in interviews and in their positions as a head coach they would never be allowed to do today. Not sure that is a good thing, but it is what it is.

Peace

[gojeremy]

I wonder if there is a forum where Knight and Rice are bickering back and forth about the official who has the worst behavior the way you guys are arguing about them right now. Ridiculous.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by gojeremy

I wonder if there is a forum where Knight and Rice are bickering back and forth about the official who has the worst behavior the way you guys are arguing about them right now. Ridiculous.

Nice contribution.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by gojeremy

I wonder if there is a forum where Knight and Rice are bickering back and forth about the official who has the worst behavior the way you guys are arguing about them right now. Ridiculous.

Thank you for being a fan of the Official Forum.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It matters how many wins he has because there was a comparison with Rice and Knight. There is no comparison.
Peace

There is very much of a comparison. They were both bullies who used intimidation and ridicule as tools to motivate. Rice seems contrite. Knight is proud of his history of bullying.

[gojeremy]

Just trying to add a little humor. The world needs to laugh more. Especially North Korea.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by gojeremy

Just trying to add a little humor. The world needs to laugh more. Especially North Korea.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zebraman

There is very much of a comparison. They were both bullies who used intimidation and ridicule as tools to motivate. Rice seems contrite. Knight is proud of his history of bullying.

Welcome to the 20th Century. That was the way coaches did things for years at many levels and many did so that many would love show respect for. That is what coaches did for a long time because they were the law and had little resistance to what they did on campuses. And even those guys we try to hold in high regard were that way, they just did not wear their actions or rant and rave in public.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by zebraman

There is very much of a comparison. They were both bullies who used intimidation and ridicule as tools to motivate. Rice seems contrite. Knight is proud of his history of bullying.

This is where I tend to agree...my first thought as I was reading about Rice's antics: This guy sounds and acts a lot like Bobby Knight. That's why I made the statement that I thought Rice would eventually land somewhere in coaching. Maybe not as quick as Knight, but eventually.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

This is where I tend to agree...my first thought as I was reading about Rice's antics: This guy sounds and acts a lot like Bobby Knight. That's why I made the statement that I thought Rice would eventually land somewhere in coaching. Maybe not as quick as Knight, but eventually.

Here's where pedigree takes over. Knight had three national titles and an Olympic gold medal when he got canned. Rice hasn't gotten out of the first round of the NCAA or NIT. Rice's best chance would be as someone's assistant for a while. It would be hard for even a D-2 or D-3 program to hire him as its head coach.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's where pedigree takes over. Knight had three national titles and an Olympic gold medal when he got canned. Rice hasn't gotten out of the first round of the NCAA or NIT. Rice's best chance would be as someone's assistant for a while. It would be hard for even a D-2 or D-3 program to hire him as its head coach.

And this is basically what I have been saying.

Peace

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's where pedigree takes over. Knight had three national titles and an Olympic gold medal when he got canned. Rice hasn't gotten out of the first round of the NCAA or NIT. Rice's best chance would be as someone's assistant for a while. It would be hard for even a D-2 or D-3 program to hire him as its head coach.

Bingo!

While this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn I think many people are missing this point.

We can go back and forth all year giving our opinions on Knight's behavior vs Rice's, on what Knight's practice tapes would have shown had there been more cameras in his era, etc. Most of that is conjecture.

The facts are that by the time an actual tape of Knight's misconduct in practice got out there he ALREADY had 3 national titles, a gold medal, 30 years of experience, and numerous former players who would go to bat for him. Mike Rice has NOWHERE close to that resume. NOWHERE CLOSE! AND the tape of his actions is much longer and much worse than any actual tape of Knights in terms of abuse toward players.

So this all started when I said I don't see how any school could hire Rice any time soon. And someone disagreed citing Bob Knight. For the purposes of that convo, I think that's an entirely misguided comparison.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Bingo!

While this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn I think many people are missing this point.

We can go back and forth all year giving our opinions on Knight's behavior vs Rice's, on what Knight's practice tapes would have shown had there been more cameras in his era, etc. Most of that is conjecture.

The facts are that by the time an actual tape of Knight's misconduct in practice got out there he ALREADY had 3 national titles, a gold medal, 30 years of experience, and numerous former players who would go to bat for him. Mike Rice has NOWHERE close to that resume. NOWHERE CLOSE! AND the tape of his actions is much longer and much worse than any actual tape of Knights in terms of abuse toward players.

So this all started when I said I don't see how any school could hire Rice any time soon. And someone disagreed citing Bob Knight. For the purposes of that convo, I think that's an entirely misguided comparison.

And before and after that incident in practice, Knight had people attend his practices. And there was dispute over what happened on the tape. Even players that were gone did not take up for the kid Knight was accused of assaulting. This tape of Rice is continuous, several actions of throwing the ball at players and grabbing players. That is why I cannot equate this situation to really anyone but Rice and his opportunity to get another job.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Have we heard from Kelvin Sampson lately? And Sampson who coached Indiana after Mike Davis left the program, who replaced Knight only committed NCAA recruiting violations. And Sampson was accused of making extra phone calls and texts mostly. Sampson is now an assistant coach for the Houston Rockets and has not been to the college ranks at all since what happened at Indiana. So Rice might work again, but I doubt he will seriously work at a college job for some time. And not with all the stories coming out and negative PR that a school would get for employing a coach that multple times was physically abusing players on video tape. And this is why comparing Knight is silly, because Knight was not accused of many things on tape and in practice. People had to go over a long time to even show where Knight would act up and he won consistently. So Knight got a job because he was a winner, Rice is not. Even Sampson was a winner and where is he now?

Peace