Syracuse-Indiana clips(s)

[Adam]

On #1, the point at which you'd call a shooting foul is the point where he gathers the ball. It's hard to tell whether his left is still on the floor, or whether it's just barely off the floor. If I can't tell, I'm not calling it.

[just another ref]

I was the one that remarked on the distance covered. Of course no one would make the call based on that alone, but it is further evidence. Not saying it can't be done, but somebody show video of a layup, in traffic, where the last dribble was right at the 3 point arc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I was the one that remarked on the distance covered. Of course no one would make the call based on that alone, but it is further evidence. Not saying it can't be done, but somebody show video of a layup, in traffic, where the last dribble was right at the 3 point arc.

That is one of the worst judges of a travel or even evidence as anything. A tall player that is well over 6 feet tall can cover a lot of distance in a couple of steps and moving at full speed. Either you judge which one is the pivot foot or you don't. But how far someone moves is very silly. Because I would think a college player can cover more distance than a JH player doing the same move. Sorry, but that part of this discussion is lame. If you want to debate when he gathered the ball and which one is the pivot foot then OK, that part at least has merit.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is one of the worst judges of a travel or even evidence as anything. A tall player that is well over 6 feet tall can cover a lot of distance in a couple of steps and moving at full speed.

That's the whole point he covered a lot of distance. But when the pivot is at the top of the key, a couple of steps is a travel.


Seriously, this thread seals the deal for me.

He hadn't/may not have finished "gathering" the ball. This, it seems, translates to "do not call a travel."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That's the whole point he covered a lot of distance. But when the pivot is at the top of the key, a couple of steps is a travel.


Seriously, this thread seals the deal for me.

He hadn't/may not have finished "gathering" the ball. This, it seems, translates to "do not call a travel."

No, the rules are clear what a player does to stop a dribble. It does say it must come to rest in that one hand or both hands must touch the ball. He did not have both hands come to the ball and it does not appear the ball came to rest in that one hand when the foot you claim was when that point took place. I am just saying that is awful quick to make that determination and in the "real world" with athletes this big and fast, you better be sure. And it is totally in doubt when the dribble actually stopped.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, the rules are clear what a player does to stop a dribble. It does say it must come to rest in that one hand or both hands must touch the ball. He did not have both hands come to the ball and it does not appear the ball came to rest in that one hand when the foot you claim was when that point took place. I am just saying that is awful quick to make that determination and in the "real world" with athletes this big and fast, you better be sure. And it is totally in doubt when the dribble actually stopped.

Peace

1. It had come to rest in one hand while the left foot was still flat on the floor.

2. He had both hands on the ball before the right foot ever passed the free throw line. The pivot was still very firmly on the floor.

3. I gotta back the announcers. This was a pretty easy call in real time.

Yes, one will fool you on occasion, but on this one the video proves the violation. But, that's fine. This is what the powers that be want "at this level" apparently. When in doubt, no call, and you can doubt anything.

[BillyMac]

Play #1: I think that the right foot is the pivot foot, and, thus, no travel.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by just another ref

1. It had come to rest in one hand while the left foot was still flat on the floor.

+1. The ball is in his right hand, dribble stopped, with his left foot on the floor.

[APG]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I was the one that remarked on the distance covered. Of course no one would make the call based on that alone, but it is further evidence. Not saying it can't be done, but somebody show video of a layup, in traffic, where the last dribble was right at the 3 point arc.

I have never used distanced cover and never heard anyone use that as any criteria. And it think it's an even sillier piece of evidence to use when you consider even the caliber of athletes in some high school games.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by APG

I have never used distanced cover and never heard anyone use that as any criteria. And it think it's an even sillier piece of evidence to use when you consider even the caliber of athletes in some high school games.

I have never used it to make the call either, but physics plays a part in most things. Show me a video and I may say, "Gee, you're right. That's easier than I thought."

But the play at hand is still a travel.

Period

Anybody that can look at this is slow motion and argue it? I don't get it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I have never used it to make the call either, but physics plays a part in most things. Show me a video and I may say, "Gee, you're right. That's easier than I thought."

Then why bring it up...first it's stupid to complain about a player going 17 feet (according to you) without a dribble. The guy is 6'6! If you really want to go down this line of thinking it's very conceivable that a player could cover this ground without a dribble...especially with momentum (like the player had here). And no physics don't play a part in adjudicating this play. This line of thinking (distance covered) is the crap that gets officials to call legal plays travels because they looked funny.

Now do I think the player traveled here? I do, but he was pretty damn close to gathering the ball with both feet in the air. This no where near as obvious as you made it out to be. You also exaggerated this play saying he ended his dribble at the 3 point line. The guy is a good foot or two inside the 3 point line.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

Then why bring it up...first it's stupid to complain about a player going 17 feet (according to you) without a dribble. The guy is 6'6! If you really want to go down this line of thinking it's very conceivable that a player could cover this ground without a dribble...especially with momentum (like the player had here). And no physics don't play a part in adjudicating this play. This line of thinking (distance covered) is the crap that gets officials to call legal plays travels because they looked funny.

Now do I think the player traveled here? I do, but he was pretty damn close to gathering the ball with both feet in the air. This no where near as obvious as you made it out to be. You also exaggerated this play saying he ended his dribble at the 3 point line. The guy is a good foot or two inside the 3 point line.

+1000

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by APG

Then why bring it up...

I was asked why I thought it was obvious. This was a part of my description. Sorry if that offends you. The last dribble was very close to the 3 point line. The pivot was on the floor in the circle well above the free throw line. He jumped off that same foot and laid the ball in. This was a travel that was easy enough to see in real time, and yes, blatant and very obvious is slow motion. The reasonable people now pretty much agree that is was a travel, now we must discuss further what constitutes blatant and obvious.

I'll tell you what does. ALL THREE of the plays from the Duke game.

[Pantherdreams]

#1 the problem with the travel on the finishing steps is is going to come down to determination of when the player gathered. I actually think there may be a travel on the inital take of as he appears to jump with both feet and reach out with the ball but not actually push in to the floor until he's left the floor and is moving past defense.

#2 Probably a shuffle in there but hard to see at speed and as a transitioning official.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

#1 the problem with the travel on the finishing steps is is going to come down to determination of when the player gathered. I actually think there may be a travel on the inital take of as he appears to jump with both feet and reach out with the ball but not actually push in to the floor until he's left the floor and is moving past defense.
....

In my original thread I mentioned that he travelled at the start of his dribble, but in real time it would have been hard to pick up.