Indiana v. Michigan State Clips

[APG]

Asked to post these plays:

Handcheck then elbow:



Blocking foul and 1:



Foul on 3 point try:

[HawkeyeCubP]

Thanks APG.

#2 = yuck.

[Camron Rust]

#1. That is a pretty weak foul to call. It clearly didn't reroute, impede, displace, or dislodge and offensive player was left with essentially an undefended layup.

#2. Good block. Defender was jumping towards the shooter at the time of contact.

#3. I do not like the foul call at all. I don't see anything that defender did wrong short of not getting out of the way.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

#1. That is a pretty weak foul to call. It clearly didn't reroute, impede, displace, or dislodge and offensive player was left with essentially and undefended layup.

#2. Good block. Defender was jumping towards the shooter at the time of contact.

#3. I do not like the foul call at all. I don't see anything that defender did wrong short of not getting out of the way.

I'm with you on 1 and 2. On 3 I simply don't have any kind of an angle. Give me the T's angle and I'll have an opinion.

[JugglingReferee]

1. How was A disadvantaged? If they call the handcheck, and the elbow gets called upon review, it looks like we have a double foul of sorts.

2. Looks close. I think B went forward slightly = block.

3. I have nothing on this. If I had the T's angle, I hope I didn't see something that only he saw.

[OKREF]

I agree that it is a block in 2. However the basket was counted
Does anyone agree that the basket should count?

[KevinP]

Originally Posted by KevinP

The ref came out with a block call and then changed it to PC.

Block call. I had PC w shoulder lowered by Zeller.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I agree that it is a block in 2. However the basket was counted
Does anyone agree that the basket should count?

I agree. Doesn't appear to me that offense had started shooting motion.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I agree that it is a block in 2. However the basket was counted
Does anyone agree that the basket should count?

should not count, imo. The player travelled after the foul, and that should end the try. Absent the travel, count the basket.

[APG]

Originally Posted by KevinP

Block call. I had PC w shoulder lowered by Zeller.

Lowered shoulder? Is there some magical degree where when the shoulder is lower than that, it equals a foul on that player?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

should not count, imo. The player travelled after the foul, and that should end the try. Absent the travel, count the basket.

Agreed.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

should not count, imo. The player travelled after the foul, and that should end the try. Absent the travel, count the basket.

Bob,
Based on your statement, "ending the TRY", you would wave off the basket (due to the travel), but still shoot two free throws since, by your statement, the try had indeed started, correct?

By the way, I happen to think that we count MANY baskets in precisely these scenarios BECAUSE we really don't have mechanics for indicating the player had STARTED the try for goal, BUT the foul caused a travel that SHOULD negate the basket. For example report to the table, Black 21, push, 2 shots, no basket, travel signal....Since we do not have any such mechanics, IF a shooter is clearly in the act of shooting when fouled, travels (regardless how noticeably), and MAKES the shot, referees disregard the travel and count the basket in virtually every case....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Bob,
Based on your statement, "ending the TRY", you would wave off the basket (due to the travel), but still shoot two free throws since, by your statement, the try had indeed started, correct?

By the way, I happen to think that we count MANY baskets in precisely these scenarios BECAUSE we really don't have mechanics for indicating the player had STARTED the try for goal, BUT the foul caused a travel that SHOULD negate the basket. For example report to the table, Black 21, push, 2 shots, no basket, travel signal....Since we do not have any such mechanics, IF a shooter is clearly in the act of shooting when fouled, travels (regardless how noticeably), and MAKES the shot, referees disregard the travel and count the basket in virtually every case....

How often do you see this?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Bob,
BECAUSE we really don't have mechanics for indicating the player had STARTED the try for goal, BUT the foul caused a travel that SHOULD negate the basket. ....

Sure we do. Wave your arms in front of your chest and state "no shot".

[rickman5]

I'm still not sold number 2 is a block. What did the defender do wrong? He established legal guarding position and moved laterally to maintain it. The offensive player created the contact. Definitely shouldn't have been scored, regardless.