From beyond the arc

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Behind the arc. In terms of shooting theory. You make more shots when you are on balance and your arm and body movement create singular positive energy on the ball. The more often you take contested shots or try to shoot over/around or through contact/defense the more often you are taking shots that don't meet that criteria. From a strictly bio-mecahnic perspective taking uncontested jump shots should be a better percentage then highly contested interior finishes.

Not sure I entirely agree with that.

Even with perfect form, distance degrades accuracy. The farther from the basket a player is, there is a smaller and smaller set of trajectories x forces that will even have a chance of going in. Inside, the successful trajectories and forces are more plentiful. You have two independent factors diminishing the probability of a make....distances and defensive pressure. Those curves will certainly cross at some point where the pressure exceeds the effect of distance but I don't think it is always true that and open shot (at any distance) is better than an interior shot, even if highly contested.

Now, if you were referring to an uncontested 12-15' jump shot, I might agree, but not necessarily at 20' or 25'.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... smaller and smaller set of trajectories x forces that will even have a chance of going in. Inside, the successful trajectories and forces are more plentiful. You have two independent factors diminishing the probability of a make ... curves will certainly cross at some point where the pressure exceeds the effect of distance.

Will this be on the test?

[letemplay]

I disagree somewhat with your statement Cam that a longer shot has a lower chance of going in than one of a shorter distance. I think the 3 point range, lets say 20-23', has become so practiced and the necessary arc, as you say, has been perfected my many, that it IS a more makeable shot. A player that is highly proficient at this distance might struggle with the release and arc necessary for a 10' from the short corner, for instance. Of course if this player practiced this shorter range as much as the 20 footer he might feel more comfortable, but where does he spend most of his practice time at? Beyond the arc, and why not...it's worth 1/3 more

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I...it's worth 1/3 more

I shake my head at BM's comments about math, then I see this.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Beyond the arc, and why not...it's worth 1/3 more

Ah yes, the new 2.6666666 point shot.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Ah yes, the new 2.6666666 point shot.

Yes, I'm trying to help Billy with his physics

[letemplay]

...and Camron with geometry

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The new 2.6666666 point shot.

Is this a 2013-14 change? I thought that the rule changes didn't come out until April?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I disagree somewhat with your statement Cam that a longer shot has a lower chance of going in than one of a shorter distance. I think the 3 point range, lets say 20-23', has become so practiced and the necessary arc, as you say, has been perfected my many, that it IS a more makeable shot. A player that is highly proficient at this distance might struggle with the release and arc necessary for a 10' from the short corner, for instance. Of course if this player practiced this shorter range as much as the 20 footer he might feel more comfortable, but where does he spend most of his practice time at? Beyond the arc, and why not...it's worth 1/3 more

We're talking the mechanics of shooting, not what distance a specific player has practiced at the most.

And it is 1/2 more, not 1/3 more.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not sure I entirely agree with that.

Even with perfect form, distance degrades accuracy. The farther from the basket a player is, there is a smaller and smaller set of trajectories x forces that will even have a chance of going in. Inside, the successful trajectories and forces are more plentiful. You have two independent factors diminishing the probability of a make....distances and defensive pressure. Those curves will certainly cross at some point where the pressure exceeds the effect of distance but I don't think it is always true that and open shot (at any distance) is better than an interior shot, even if highly contested.

Now, if you were referring to an uncontested 12-15' jump shot, I might agree, but not necessarily at 20' or 25'.

My fault assuming you can shoot the distance of open jump shot without changing to faulty mechanics to gain power and sacrifice accuracy. This is the real issue. Because we can't shoot accurately with strength at range until years into players development for success, strategy and quality practice the number of reps (hours of practice/game situations) in finishing on the interior is just so much greater then long shots people get better at them. The same way I'm better at eating cereal then I am playing the piano. Could I be as good or better yes. Once I had the capability I would have to spend a ridiculous amount of time on playing piano though. Got my mastery of eating early

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

My fault assuming you can shoot the distance of open jump shot without changing to faulty mechanics to gain power and sacrifice accuracy. This is the real issue. Because we can't shoot accurately with strength at range until years into players development for success, strategy and quality practice the number of reps (hours of practice/game situations) in finishing on the interior is just so much greater then long shots people get better at them. The same way I'm better at eating cereal then I am playing the piano. Could I be as good or better yes. Once I had the capability I would have to spend a ridiculous amount of time on playing piano though. Got my mastery of eating early

Still, no matter how much a player practices at any given distance, the laws of physics will still always say that the ability to make a shot will go down in relation to the distance....even if the player is sufficiently strong and maintains perfect form at any distance. The effective target gets smaller and smaller the farther away it gets and, as a result, gets more difficult to hit.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still, no matter how much a player practices at any given distance, the laws of physics will still always say that the ability to make a shot will go down in relation to the distance....even if the player is sufficiently strong and maintains perfect form at any distance. The effective target gets smaller and smaller the farther away it gets and, as a result, gets more difficult to hit.

Yes if that were the only determining factor I would agree. Someone with the actual science would have to confirm, but anecdotally having to adjust/practice to compensate for loss of results for 1 factor (distance) seems more repeatable to me. Having to adjust body, tragectory, release point, counterbalance fighting biomechanics and energy producers to keep the ball on line and on lift vs 1 or defensive players and potential contact seems like its more difficult to repeat in a uncontrolled environment. Now we are back to practice though.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Got my mastery of eating.

I'm what you call an expert.