Richmond vs. Charlotte End of Game

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't use the term "gather". It is an unnecessary term and it is entirely too vague. It is not defined and is used with great inconsistency with respect to when the shot begins and when the same player is liable for a travel. Some argue that "gather" is early when in the context of a shot but will swear up and down they've not gathered it when the discussion is a travel.

If they are holding the ball and are bringing it up or trying to bring it up at the time of contact, they're going to the line. They have to have started the upward movement with the ball (or be attempting to do so) or be attempting to turn to the basket (as in a typical post move) to be shooting. On a fast break/layup, that usually starts about the same time they catch the ball but not necessarily. Farther from the basket, it is usually later.

So you say they "are holding the ball and trying to bring it up". Another official says they have "gathered the ball". There is no difference.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So you say they "are holding the ball and trying to bring it up". Another official says they have "gathered the ball". There is no difference.

A1 dribbles the ball. A1 intends to (a)while in the air, grab the ball with both hands, then (b) land in a jump stop, and then (c) jump to try for goal. (a reasonably standard play we see several times a game.)

During this move, however, A1 is fouled between steps (a) and (b).

If you use the "gathered" criterion (as I understand it to mean), you'd award two shots. If you use the "begins the habitual motion" you wouldn't -- the landing is one "move" and the "try for goal" is a second.

I think that's the difference, and I think the second interp is correct.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 dribbles the ball. A1 intends to (a)while in the air, grab the ball with both hands, then (b) land in a jump stop, and then (c) jump to try for goal. (a reasonably standard play we see several times a game.)

During this move, however, A1 is fouled between steps (a) and (b).

If you use the "gathered" criterion (as I understand it to mean), you'd award two shots. If you use the "begins the habitual motion" you wouldn't -- the landing is one "move" and the "try for goal" is a second.

I think that's the difference, and I think the second interp is correct.

Thank you BOB! Great example to show that "gather" does not equal "shooting". It is necessary but is not sufficient (as I think you said earlier).

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 dribbles the ball. A1 intends to (a)while in the air, grab the ball with both hands, then (b) land in a jump stop, and then (c) jump to try for goal. (a reasonably standard play we see several times a game.)

During this move, however, A1 is fouled between steps (a) and (b).

If you use the "gathered" criterion (as I understand it to mean), you'd award two shots. If you use the "begins the habitual motion" you wouldn't -- the landing is one "move" and the "try for goal" is a second.

I think that's the difference, and I think the second interp is correct.

Ok. I guess we have different understandings of using the word "gathered". I would never use the word gathered to a coach in this play.

However, drive to basket. Player gathers the ball, or ( for Camron's benefit) the player is holding the ball and trying to bring it up, as they are fouled and then take one more step to lay it in...defensive coach wants an explanation on "the continuation". Simple answer - "He gathered the ball, Coach"

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Ok. I guess we have different understandings of using the word "gathered". I would never use the word gathered to a coach in this play.

However, drive to basket. Player gathers the ball, or ( for Camron's benefit) the player is holding the ball and trying to bring it up, as they are fouled and then take one more step to lay it in...defensive coach wants an explanation on "the continuation". Simple answer - "He gathered the ball, Coach"

I prefer to say "He started the shot". Always accurate rather than misleading. Gather, to me, is akin to over the back or reach. It communicates the wrong thing.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by camron rust

i prefer to say "he started the shot". Always accurate rather than misleading. Gather, to me, is akin to over the back or reach. It communicates the wrong thing.

+100

[OKREF]

Gathering the ball does not always constitute a shooting motion. Starting the shooting motion does. These are two different things.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So you say they "are holding the ball and trying to bring it up". Another official says they have "gathered the ball". There is no difference.

The point is that, in a different context, the same official will say they didn't gather it yet as a justification for not having a travel. It an undefined term that I see getting redefined on a whim to fit the desired, but sometimes unsupportable, end ruling rather than a clear definition that is used to determine the end ruling.