Putting hands on official? (Video added)

[paulsonj72]

My source is a media source. I defer to those who have more info. Here is where I got a good amount of my info as well as this one from Peoria.

IHSA Class 2A boys basketball state final: Seton leaves upset after upset loss to Harrisburg during which Mark Weeks was ejected - chicagotribune.com

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/sportsc...early-and-late

Originally Posted by paulsonj72

Vlahos: Class 2A title game ?embarrassing? early and late - Peoria, IL - pjstar.com

The second page of this article editorializes quite a bit, and has some harsh words concerning the officials.

[paulsonj72]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

The second page of this article editorializes quite a bit, and has some harsh words concerning the officials.

It was a column and I couldn't just get the 1st page.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

The second page of this article editorializes quite a bit, and has some harsh words concerning the officials.

I've heard this argument before. Rural officials working city school games. As someone who works games involving both city and rural schools, there's no denying that the games are different beasts to call.

That said, the 2 technical fouls called in the video above seemed to be right on the money and showed an official who reacted properly to a situation.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've heard this argument before. Rural officials working city school games. As someone who works games involving both city and rural schools, there's no denying that the games are different beasts to call.

That said, the 2 technical fouls called in the video above seemed to be right on the money and showed an official who reacted properly to a situation.

The entire game is at this link: 2013 IHSA Boys Basketball 2A Championship - South Holland (Seton Academy) vs Harrisburg (Event): Illinois: PlayOn! Sports

My guess is the guy who wrote the column went overboard with how the game was handled but we can all watch for ourselves. I definitely don't like the fact he not only mentioned the officials' names but the towns in which they live.

[maven]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I definitely don't like the fact he not only mentioned the officials' names but the towns in which they live.

In my state, he would face disciplinary action (withdrawn credentials, denial of future credentials) for such behavior.

[srp6977]

Preface-I'm an official from the Peoria area and had no rooting interest in the game other than a fan of basketball.

I was at this game and about 40 feet from where the T's were called. #4 that got booted probably should have been T'd earlier in the game. With a ringside seat I could see him trash talking from the tip-off.

I am going to say this while biting my tongue because as we all know you hate to judge another official and I very rarely do, but these guys let the game get to the point they had these technicals. They had no control over this game out of the shoot. Thus it escalated into what it did.

You had kids whacking each other, talking trash and acting like fools with nothing happening from the officials. Kids off ball were beating the hell out of each other and nothing. Somebody would get killed on one end of the floor in a giant crash with nothing and then a touch foul at the other end. It was odd to watch. I counted 6 crashes at the basket with bodies everywhere and nothing.

In their defense there was one official who tried to clean it up, but he was not enough. The other two unfortunately laid an egg. It was hard to watch. I felt bad for them to make it to the pinnacle in a championship game and then have a train wreck.

Someone mentioned the fans. I was very near the Harrisburg fans and they were brutal. If it would have been in a high school gym several of them would have been ejected. Some of the stuff they were saying was embarrassing to say the least.

With all that said as usual the losing team still easily could have won if they had just hit their free throws. If they shoot 70% from the line they win anyway.

It wasn't a great way for the fans, players, coaches or the officials to end their season.

[pfan1981]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've heard this argument before. Rural officials working city school games. As someone who works games involving both city and rural schools, there's no denying that the games are different beasts to call

Isn't basketball basketball? The NFHS rule book is not different depending on the game. Not looking to stir things up. A charge is a charge and a travel is a travel, etc. I understand the pace, offense, and defense may be different, but as the official, you enforce the same rule book. Watching the game, some Ts should have been given out earlier to get things under control.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by pfan1981

Isn't basketball basketball?

Basketball has always been a city game, played by city kids, at first Jewish kids, then Irish kids, and now, by many African American kids, without easy access to baseball fields, football fields, or hockey rinks, but with easy access to parks with lots, and lots, of basketball courts.

The suburban games, and rural games, are basketball, but they're a very different type of basketball. Not better. Not worse. Just different. I'm fortunate that I can officiate all different kinds of basketball here in my little corner of Connecticut, city, suburban, and rural, and I enjoy officiating all three types. I would probably have a problem if I only officiated city games and then had to do a game in a rural community. Contact that kids can play through in the city, they can't play through in the country. City games seem to move at a faster pace. The coaching is different. The players are different. The parents, and other fans, are different. And each group has a different expectation about how the game will officiated. It's the same game, but it's different, and very hard to explain, without being condescending to a particular group, or thought of as a racist, or a country-phile, or a city-phile.

[legend]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball has always been a city game, played by city kids, at first Jewish kids, then Irish kids, and now, by many African American kids, without easy access to baseball fields, football fields, or hockey rinks, but with easy access to parks with lots, and lots, of basketball courts.

The suburban games, and rural games, are basketball, but they're a very different type of basketball. Not better. Not worse. Just different. I'm fortunate that I can officiate all different kinds of basketball here in my little corner of Connecticut, city, suburban, and rural, and I enjoy officiating all three types. I would probably have a problem if I only officiated city games and then had to do a game in a rural community. Contact that kids can play through in the city, they can't play through in the country. City games seem to move at a faster pace. The coaching is different. The players are different. The parents, and other fans, are different. And each group has a different expectation about how the game will officiated. It's the same game, but it's different, and very hard to explain, without being condescending to a particular group, or thought of as a racist, or a country-phile, or a city-phile.

Great post...my guess is that one would just have to work both city and rural leagues to truly understand the differences in both. I vividly remember the first city league game I worked and (my guess is that) I seemed completely overwhelmed the first few minuets getting adjusted to the speed and athleticism the city kids had. You just simply can't officiate the two types of games the same. You see some of the plays that the city kids do and they are things that no rural kid that I've ever seen would be able to accomplish.

[Adam]

Typically, it seems to me the difference is more about the size of the school than the geographic location of the school. I work a lot of big school city ball, small school city ball, and rural ball (some rural schools are actually closer to me than some city schools within the local city limits), and school size is the biggest difference. Bigger schools have bigger talent pools from which to draw players, so the players are faster, stronger, taller, and play higher.

The key is to be flexible enough to recognize when contact presents an advantage and when it doesn't.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball has always been a city game, played by city kids, at first Jewish kids, then Irish kids, and now, by many African American kids, without easy access to baseball fields, football fields, or hockey rinks, but with easy access to parks with lots, and lots, of basketball courts.

The suburban games, and rural games, are basketball, but they're a very different type of basketball. Not better. Not worse. Just different. I'm fortunate that I can officiate all different kinds of basketball here in my little corner of Connecticut, city, suburban, and rural, and I enjoy officiating all three types. I would probably have a problem if I only officiated city games and then had to do a game in a rural community. Contact that kids can play through in the city, they can't play through in the country. City games seem to move at a faster pace. The coaching is different. The players are different. The parents, and other fans, are different. And each group has a different expectation about how the game will officiated. It's the same game, but it's different, and very hard to explain, without being condescending to a particular group, or thought of as a racist, or a country-phile, or a city-phile.

I think this was actually the best post I have ever read from you. Seriously!!!

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by pfan1981

Isn't basketball basketball? The NFHS rule book is not different depending on the game. Not looking to stir things up. A charge is a charge and a travel is a travel, etc. I understand the pace, offense, and defense may be different, but as the official, you enforce the same rule book. Watching the game, some Ts should have been given out earlier to get things under control.

You work all your games in rural conferences and then try to work a big game in a big city and then we'll talk.

Billy's post upthread is spot on. It's a different style of play and how contact is called is one of the big factors. Another factor is how vigilant you have to be when it comes to things like trash talking and unsportsmanlike behaviors. Play routinely above the rim is another factor.

[fullor30]

Billy Mac's post is spot on.....

That said, having a city school play a downstate rural school, I would have liked to seen a mix of officials that fit Billy's description who would have been able to adapt to any style game, it didn't appear to be the case here.

Second T was warranted, easy one. First one on kid, I dunno. I have know idea what he said, if he had been warned previously, but from tape only I would've passed, especially noting that #11 pushed him ever so slightly in back. To step in and tell him/them to knock it off seemed like the better course. Again from tape only, it didn't seem like much.

Earlier in game there was a situation with Seton coach where official should have gotten away from him after a warning regarding coach's box, Seton coach is then talking to official and is at most two feet out of box and official is pointing him to get back, you have to see it, it just doesn't look good.


Having watched most of game, it was ugly and a tough game to officiate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I would have liked to seen a mix of officials that fit Billy's description who would have been able to adapt to any style game.

Hey. I was available. It was an open date for me on Arbiter. My bag was packed. Nobody called me.