State Playoffs - Call or No Call

[JetMetFan]

I'm of two minds on #30 vs. A1. I can see calling the initial contact near the division line if I'm the T on that play and in the heat of the moment. A lot would depend on what we'd been calling up to that point. However looking at the replay I can also see passing on that situation.

But...there had to be a call on the block/charge. Even, as the T, if you're not sure who the foul is on at the moment you blow the whistle just blow the whistle. I'm not saying make something up. Blow the whistle, don't give a preliminary and take a beat to process what happened. We all work hard out there and if I'm an observer I can forgive not putting a whistle on the contact at the beginning or end of that sequence but to have nothing on the train wreck in the middle shouldn't have been an option.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich

I still work a fair amount of 2-man and I know that as the L I would hope I'd come get this.

Are you talking about the crash or the shooting foul?

My criticism of the Lead isn't that he called a shooting foul, but that he was willing to come out of his PCA to penalize that contact yet wasn't willing to come save the day on the much more obvious crash.

My guess as to why is that he ran all the way down to the endline prematurely during this action. That positioning put him far away from the sideline crash and made him reluctant to whistle. He should have been FTLE at the time of the crash and then hustled down to the normal close-down Lead position should the dribbler have gotten past the defenders cleanly.

One can only set up early and receive the play as Lead in 3-man.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I'd rather call the PC foul and let it end in a tie, than to call the 2nd foul. JMO.

I'd rather get the call right, and if I (or the crew) miss one, get the next one right without worrying about the score or whether the game will (or won't) end in a tie.

This is the second time in the past couple of days that someone has intimated (or I have inferred) that the score and time of the game should influence our calls or the "benefit of the doubt." I disagree strongly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you talking about the crash or the shooting foul?

The crash. And I don't see why the T couldn't have gotten that, despite the inferior angle. We make those calls all the time.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Rich

The crash. And I don't see why the T couldn't have gotten that, despite the inferior angle. We make those calls all the time.

I'm the same way. The trail should have gotten the PC foul on the sideline, 2-man or not.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I hope that the announcer was wrong and that the shot by #30 Red was ruled a 2, not a 3.
The collision along the sideline is a clear PC, but if I recall my chats with Camron correctly OR is 2-man for all games, so the Trail who is table side would be straight-lined and the Lead would have to come get this.
The Lead is then willing to call across and outside of the lane for marginal contact that results in game-winning FTs. I don't believe that the defender should have been penalized there.

It was a 3, the line she steps on is the college 3. There is an inside line.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've got either a hold or a block (take your pick) on red 30 long before the PC collision. If not for that, the dribbler would have been able to turn to avoid the 2nd defender.

Not in that situation. The dribbler is moving toward the sideline. It does not look like she was being pushed or guided in by the defense.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've got either a hold or a block (take your pick) on red 30 long before the PC collision. If not for that, the dribbler would have been able to turn to avoid the 2nd defender.

No way. The dribbler is being legally sealed off -- she has no intention of coming back to the center of the floor.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Rich

No way. The dribbler is being legally sealed off -- she has no intention of coming back to the center of the floor.

+1000 on No way...... Good defense

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by fullor30

+1000 on No way...... Good defense

I can buy passing on it but is is far from good or legal defense.

[mutantducky]

eh, I don't like the charging call in that situation. It's a player breaking the press and someone getting in the way at the last moment. Charging calls are really unusual on press breaks and of course there are times to call them but I don't see it here. Good no call even though I'm in the minority here. And no a ref doesn't have to blow the whistle even though there is a 'crash'. Good no-call and play on.
As for the shooting foul, hard to say. Looks like it shouldn't have been called but maybe the ref had a better angle, seemed like a slight bump. I wouldn't have called it but I can't criticize the ref who did although as Nevada notes positioning is an issue.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

eh, I don't like the charging call in that situation. It's a player breaking the press and someone getting in the way at the last moment. Charging calls are really unusual on press breaks and of course there are times to call them but I don't see it here. Good no call even though I'm in the minority here. And no a ref doesn't have to blow the whistle even though there is a 'crash'. Good no-call and play on.
As for the shooting foul, hard to say. Looks like it shouldn't have been called but maybe the ref had a better angle, seemed like a slight bump. I wouldn't have called it but I can't criticize the ref who did although as Nevada notes positioning is an issue.

This philosophy makes no sense at all.

You know why charges are unusual during presses (or any full court situation really)? Because the dribbler has the whole court to avoid a defender so it's hard for the defender to get in the path of the dribbler. So I'm not sue what this being a press has to do with whether it's a charge or not. If you think the contact is marginal, then just say so.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

eh, I don't like the charging call in that situation. It's a player breaking the press and someone getting in the way at the last moment. Charging calls are really unusual on press breaks and of course there are times to call them but I don't see it here. Good no call even though I'm in the minority here. And no a ref doesn't have to blow the whistle even though there is a 'crash'. Good no-call and play on.
As for the shooting foul, hard to say. Looks like it shouldn't have been called but maybe the ref had a better angle, seemed like a slight bump. I wouldn't have called it but I can't criticize the ref who did although as Nevada notes positioning is an issue.

What's the point of the defense even trying then? Especially on games you are officiating? You have negated any reason for a full court press. The defense can only force a TO on a 10 second violation or steal.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

eh, I don't like the charging call in that situation. It's a player breaking the press and someone getting in the way at the last moment. Charging calls are really unusual on press breaks and of course there are times to call them but I don't see it here. Good no call even though I'm in the minority here. And no a ref doesn't have to blow the whistle even though there is a 'crash'. Good no-call and play on.
As for the shooting foul, hard to say. Looks like it shouldn't have been called but maybe the ref had a better angle, seemed like a slight bump. I wouldn't have called it but I can't criticize the ref who did although as Nevada notes positioning is an issue.

Totally and completely disagree with this. I really have a hard time thinking you actually believe this. This is not a good no call, and it is compounded by an extreme reach when the foul on the shooter is called. This isn't a no call situation as the offense runs right over the defense. You can't pass on this just because it isn't on a drive to the basket and happens in a pressing situation. That's a ludicrous statement.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

...... someone getting in the way at the last moment.

Isn't that kinda the definition of a charge?