Clip(s): Kansas v. Iowa State

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I'm with JetMet on this one... However, I understand why NCAAM wants the L to have everything in the paint with there being more of an opportunity for above the rim play. On the women's side, there isn't hardly any play above the rim, so the C has more of an opportunity to referee their primary... including half of the lane.

I would expect all NCAAW officials to like their way of calling it.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rich

I would expect all NCAAW officials to like their way of calling it.

Not necessarily. There's stuff we do I haven't been thrilled with at times - giong tableside on foul calls, which we did before NCAAM, comes to mind - but having the C as primary on a play like this makes sense to me.

The C in an NCAAW game would've maneuvered themselves to the FTLE to make sure they could see it...an issue I see was brought up in some of the previous posts.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Not necessarily. There's stuff we do I haven't been thrilled with at times - giong tableside on foul calls, which we did before NCAAM, comes to mind - but having the C as primary on a play like this makes sense to me.

The C in an NCAAW game would've maneuvered themselves to the FTLE to make sure they could see it...an issue I see was brought up in some of the previous posts.

The C in a HS game should've done the same thing. The C in an NCAAM game should've done the same thing. You can't pick one thing and say that it's a reflection of NCAAM teaching.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rich

The C in a HS game should've done the same thing. The C in an NCAAM game should've done the same thing. You can't pick one thing and say that it's a reflection of NCAAM teaching.

Not so much teaching as it is habits. If you don't think you need to look at something there's a chance you won't move to a spot where you could see it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Not so much teaching as it is habits. If you don't think you need to look at something there's a chance you won't move to a spot where you could see it.

Habits by older officials working NCAA-M. You'll see the younger officials getting FTLE.

[Tio]

This was a difficult game to referee. Self got a Tech 2 minutes in (hopefully the video will post below).



1. We cannot have a no-call on the crash at the end of the game. IMO, this was a charge and should have sealed the deal for ISU. To compound matters, there is an at best marginal foul call on the player who was steamrolled sending KU to the line to tie the game.

2. There should have been a 5th foul on Withey. He was trying to foul at the end of the game and is even over by the bench waiting to be replaced. Instead, the foul is given to a player who did not touch the offensive player.

3. On the BI in the second half, one of the officials looks at the bigscreen during the conference. There is no way to know if they had time to see the play and whether it played into the decision or not.

Overall, a very disappointing outcome for the game of basketball.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tio

This was a difficult game to referee. Self got a Tech 2 minutes in (hopefully the video will post below).



1. We cannot have a no-call on the crash at the end of the game. IMO, this was a charge and should have sealed the deal for ISU. To compound matters, there is an at best marginal foul call on the player who was steamrolled sending KU to the line to tie the game.

2. There should have been a 5th foul on Withey. He was trying to foul at the end of the game and is even over by the bench waiting to be replaced. Instead, the foul is given to a player who did not touch the offensive player.

3. On the BI in the second half, one of the officials looks at the bigscreen during the conference. There is no way to know if they had time to see the play and whether it played into the decision or not.

Overall, a very disappointing outcome for the game of basketball.

I think O'Neill looked up because someone told him to look at the big screen -- he very quickly looked away when he realized it was a replay. Not sure why he looked in the first place, but I do not think he used it. Could be he looked up out of reflex when someone told him to -- who knows?

Self had it coming, IMO.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Not necessarily. There's stuff we do I haven't been thrilled with at times - giong tableside on foul calls, which we did before NCAAM, comes to mind - but having the C as primary on a play like this makes sense to me.

The C in an NCAAW game would've maneuvered themselves to the FTLE to make sure they could see it...an issue I see was brought up in some of the previous posts.

If you watched the UF/Tenn game last night you have seen great examples of officials working a "low" C instead of wandering off towards the 28' line.

[bob jenkins]

I'm "sure" it's two getting discilined because even though T could have saved the crew it wasn't really his call. That is, he could have improved his evaluation by making the call, but doesn't get a poorer evaluation by not making it.

[ballgame99]

PC's don't get much easier than that one. What I don't get is why the L would pass on that much contact, and THEN be quick on the whistile to call the illegal contact on the ISU defender while they are on the floor. If the crew had just swallowed the whistle for the whole sequence it would probably be getting less pub than it is now.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm "sure" it's two getting discilined because even though T could have saved the crew it wasn't really his call. That is, he could have improved his evaluation by making the call, but doesn't get a poorer evaluation by not making it.

Say the trail had made the call, what would the locker room conversation be like?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Say the trail had made the call, what would the locker room conversation be like?

(By L and C) "We owe you copious amounts of beverages for that one. Thank you for saving our a$$es." That's about as big of a non-administrative crew-save call as it gets. I can't imagine anything other than gratitude and acceptance.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

(By L and C) "We owe you copious amounts of beverages for that one. Thank you for saving our a$$es." That's about as big of a non-administrative crew-save call as it gets. I can't imagine anything other than gratitude and acceptance.

That's what it should be.

Too often though, it might be "stay the hell out of my area" or "I'm the big dog and I don't need you p***ing on my tree." Followed by "yeah, well if you would make the effing call I wouldn't have to do that."

I don't know (very well) any of the personalities involved in this scenario, so I can't say what would have happened.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Say the trail had made the call, what would the locker room conversation be like?

L and C would/should say, "thanks for coming to get that. I got stuck and didnt have a good look."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you watched the UF/Tenn game last night you have seen great examples of officials working a "low" C instead of wandering off towards the 28' line.

I don't get people that work a high C. What's the benefit, really? FT line to FT line is only 64 feet and unlike when you're the T, there's no huge hurry to stay in front of the play.