Time out

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

"The whistle rarely makes the ball dead, it is already dead."

#16 I got that. But in the case of the timeout, it is not specified what makes the ball dead.

A simple addition to 6-7:

The ball becomes dead when a coach or player properly requests a timeout.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

#16 I got that. But in the case of the timeout, it is not specified what makes the ball dead.

A simple addition to 6-7:

The ball becomes dead when a coach or player properly requests a timeout.

I do not think you need that much specifics. It is clear to me when a coach makes the request and you grant it the play is dead. The problem is it takes time to get a lot of requests understood.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is clear to me when a coach makes the request and you grant it the play is dead.

And it is also clear to me that the play is dead when a foul or violation occurs and is subsequently called, but even so, these things are specified in 6-7. Why is the same not true for the timeout, which is further complicated by the fact that it can be improperly granted. A timeout whistled with the ball in the air could ultimately benefit either side, depending on what happens afterward.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And it is also clear to me that the play is dead when a foul or violation occurs and is subsequently called, but even so, these things are specified in 6-7. Why is the same not true for the timeout, which is further complicated by the fact that it can be improperly granted. A timeout whistled with the ball in the air could ultimately benefit either side, depending on what happens afterward.

I see your point, but with other wording or understanding of timeouts that have been mentioned, I do not see why this would not apply to a timeout. And I see no case play that would make us do anything out of the ordinary. If they do not make it clear that something does not apply, I would think this is just a simple oversight. How else would we apply this in the first place when we have to recognized that a HC made the request clearly when their player had possession of the ball. Just because we blow the whistle and at the time we blow the whistle we only apply what has happened (like the ball in the air for a shot)? I am not so sure that makes sense.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see your point, but with other wording or understanding of timeouts that have been mentioned, I do not see why this would not apply to a timeout. And I see no case play that would make us do anything out of the ordinary. If they do not make it clear that something does not apply, I would think this is just a simple oversight. How else would we apply this in the first place when we have to recognized that a HC made the request clearly when their player had possession of the ball. Just because we blow the whistle and at the time we blow the whistle we only apply what has happened (like the ball in the air for a shot)? I am not so sure that makes sense.

Peace

Common sense dictates that recognition of a timeout is almost always going to come 1-2 seconds after it is called (unless it is called by the player with the ball. Any other time a timeout is requested verbally outside of your view, you need to make sure 1) there is player control and 2) that the correct team is calling the timeout, and 3) that it is a player on the floor or HC. This takes time. we can't just blow it dead whenever we hear timeout as it could have come from the wrong team, a fan or someone else not authorized or permitted by rule.

If you don't delay, coaches and fans will pick up on that and use it to gain an unfair advantage. The defense could use it to stop the clock if they are out of position or getting beat 3 on 1 in transition. It makes sense to delay. If anything, you should also note the time that the TO was recognized and add that time back on, but no one does that in practice unless it is an end of game sitch. Just my opinion.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Common sense dictates that recognition of a timeout is almost always going to come 1-2 seconds after it is called (unless it is called by the player with the ball. Any other time a timeout is requested verbally outside of your view, you need to make sure 1) there is player control and 2) that the correct team is calling the timeout, and 3) that it is a player on the floor or HC. This takes time. we can't just blow it dead whenever we hear timeout as it could have come from the wrong team, a fan or someone else not authorized or permitted by rule.

If you don't delay, coaches and fans will pick up on that and use it to gain an unfair advantage. The defense could use it to stop the clock if they are out of position or getting beat 3 on 1 in transition. It makes sense to delay. If anything, you should also note the time that the TO was recognized and add that time back on, but no one does that in practice unless it is an end of game sitch. Just my opinion.

The coach isn't entitled to the clock stopping the instant he asks for a timeout. I have put time back on, but I'd never consider adding time from before my whistle blows - it's only when the timer is slow in stopping the clock.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich

The coach isn't entitled to the clock stopping the instant he asks for a timeout. I have put time back on, but I'd never consider adding time from before my whistle blows - it's only when the timer is slow in stopping the clock.

Because BY RULE you can't.
Officiating would be so much simpler if everyone would just follow the rules instead of trying to substitute what an individual thinks to be fair.
Applying the rules is what is fair.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

It makes sense to delay.

Originally Posted by Rich

The coach isn't entitled to the clock stopping the instant he asks for a timeout.

So this is ok? I had a game recently where a coach asked for a timeout. It took me almost two seconds to blow the whistle, cuz I was checking to make sure I could. The coach sarcastically laughed at me and asked "what took you so long, did you not hear me?" It was not a time-saving situation, so an extra two seconds running off didn't matter, but his reaction struck me as strange.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Rich

The coach isn't entitled to the clock stopping the instant he asks for a timeout. I have put time back on, but I'd never consider adding time from before my whistle blows - it's only when the timer is slow in stopping the clock.

5 seconds left A1 makes a bucket to go up by 1. You hear timout 3 times quickly by B Coach immediatley. You have definate knowledge that the request was made at 5.o seconds on the clock. You turn and verify that it is indeed the coach who has made the request. Whistle at 3.8 sec and then timer gets clock stopped at 3.2. What are you going to do in this sitch? Would anyone put time back to 5 or at least 3.8?