Time out

[onetime1]

White team has the ball trapped in the backcourt, Coach requests timeout as player makes long pass to front court. Official blows whistle and grants timeout. Long pass is stolen by Red player. Red team extremely upset. What is official to do correctly in this situation.

[JRutledge]

If the official granted the timeout as the player had possession than they grant the timeout. That is on the judgement of the calling official. Just because the whistle might have been while the ball in the air changes nothing.

Now even if the whistle came after pass was given, by rule you still are supposed to grant the timeout. It would be unfortunate, but that is the rule. Or you could do the common sense thing and have an inadvertent whistle and either give it to the defensive team or go to the AP arrow. Not saying that is the thing to do, but people suggest that option often.

Peace

[onetime1]

So is there team control during the flight of the pass? does this give the coach a chance to request a time out?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by onetime1

So is there team control during the flight of the pass? does this give the coach a chance to request a time out?

You must have player control to call a timeout. And the whistle does not make the play dead, the play is already dead by the recognition of the timeout being requested by the coach if the player had control at the same time. This is the reason they need to get rid of this rule because all it does is make officials have to pay attention to someone that can request a timeout and have to figure out if the HC made the request as opposed to someone else.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by onetime1

So is there team control during the flight of the pass? does this give the coach a chance to request a time out?

Yes, there is team control during a pass. However, the rules require player control, the ball at a team's disposal, or a dead ball for a timeout request to be properly granted.
So if the official incorrectly granted a timeout while the ball was in flight during a pass, the rule is that the team in control receives a throw-in from the OOB spot nearest to the location of the ball. In this case that is where it was last in contact with a player on the court, so from where the pass was thrown.

Pay no attention to the above post by Rut that is wrong by rule!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by onetime1

So is there team control during the flight of the pass? does this give the coach a chance to request a time out?

When was the timeout requested and heard by the official? The timing of the whistle isn't the important piece of the puzzle and could come a bit later.

[just another ref]

This is a gray area which needs an editorial adjustment. Nothing in the timeout process is on the list of things which cause the ball to become dead except the whistle.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is a gray area which needs an editorial adjustment. Nothing in the timeout process is on the list of things which cause the ball to become dead except the whistle.

There's the letter of the rules and there's the spirit of the rules that good officials understand and follow.

[Raymond]

Georgia/Ole Miss, 2:57 of 2nd half.

A1 elbows B1 to the face after time-out request was recognized but before whistle is blown.

Ruling: FF1 Technical charged to A1 for dead ball contact.

Don't know who's argument this advances but I know it is relevant to this conversation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Georgia/Ole Miss, 2:57 of 2nd half.

A1 elbows B1 to the face after time-out request was recognized but before whistle is blown.

Ruling: FF1 Technical charged to A1 for dead ball contact.

Don't know who's argument this advances but I know it is relevant to this conversation.

I don't like it one bit. Who knows if the official is or is not going to blow the whistle for anything. Players shouldn't be held responsible for guessing what the official will do. Until the whistle sounds, I'd say any foul that occurs is a personal.

[just another ref]

Considering this play wouldn't change anyones thinking, would it? What if the elbow was before the whistle but after a traveling violation?

By rule, the request, recognized or not, does not make the ball dead. In practice, apparently to most it does. (player request a split second before landing out of bounds) I guess we all have to make up our minds whether this will be the case, but I don't see how you can have it both ways. Editorial clarification would be swell.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

By rule, the request, recognized or not, does not make the ball dead. In practice, apparently to most it does. (player request a split second before landing out of bounds) I guess we all have to make up our minds whether this will be the case, but I don't see how you can have it both ways. Editorial clarification would be swell.

Good point about the player requesting while falling out of bounds. If he touches out of bounds before the official granting and whistle, most of us are going to ignore the out of bounds call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Considering this play wouldn't change anyones thinking, would it? What if the elbow was before the whistle but after a traveling violation?

By rule, the request, recognized or not, does not make the ball dead. In practice, apparently to most it does. (player request a split second before landing out of bounds) I guess we all have to make up our minds whether this will be the case, but I don't see how you can have it both ways. Editorial clarification would be swell.

I think this is one of those areas where we just have to actually referee. Not everything about this game is black and white....and insisting that it be is not good for the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think this is one of those areas where we just have to actually referee. Not everything about this game is black and white....and insisting that it be is not good for the game.

+1

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think this is one of those areas where we just have to actually referee. Not everything about this game is black and white....and insisting that it be is not good for the game.

It sounded to me like you were advocating the black and white angle here, suggesting the elbow timing in relation to the whistle was important. If a player threw an elbow to the face, what does the timeout, or the whistle, have to do with it. He should be prepared to deal with whatever consequences that follow.