refuses to play with 5

[johnny d]

Why was the elbow to the head called a T? Was the ball dead? As far as playing with 4 goes, I would ask the coach if he is refusing to put in a sub, or if the players on his bench are not available to play. If his answer indicates the first then he is getting a T and a forefit if he continues to refuse to put another player in. If he answers the latter, then they play with 4. I dont care what his reason is at the time, injury, discipline, whatever, if he says they are not available, that is good enough for me.

[DRJ1960]

We didn't address the initial "T" in our post game... my opinion, for what its worth, was simply that he was unclear on the details of the emphasis this year on elbows. (It was live ball, completely out of my primary (3 man) .... didn't see it).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

We didn't address the initial "T" in our post game... my opinion, for what its worth, was simply that he was unclear on the details of the emphasis this year on elbows. (It was live ball, completely out of my primary (3 man) .... didn't see it).

If it's clearly a live ball situation, you need to get together with your partner at the time. We make rule mistakes as a crew.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Rich

If it's clearly a live ball situation, you need to get together with your partner at the time. We make rule mistakes as a crew.

Had a partner call a T on a hard foul during a live ball last year. R thought it was a good call. I said it had to be flagrant or intentional because it was a live ball foul. "They" decided to stick with the T. Which I knew was incorrect, but sometimes you just need to pick your battles.

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by Rich

If it's clearly a live ball situation, you need to get together with your partner at the time. We make rule mistakes as a crew.

Agreed...
I have a few reasons for not "helping" there... but no excuse

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Rich

We make rule mistakes as a crew.

I see too many people who forget this.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Had a partner call a T on a hard foul during a live ball last year. R thought it was a good call. I said it had to be flagrant or intentional because it was a live ball foul. "They" decided to stick with the T. Which I knew was incorrect, but sometimes you just need to pick your battles.

This is not unusual. I had a partner tell me recently that two kids got into a "scrum" during a live ball situation and he had to "T 'em both up". I didn't even bother trying to explain that it couldn't have been a technical because they were live ball contact fouls. That isn't the first time I've had other officials not know the difference between personal/technical.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I had a partner tell me recently that two kids got into a "scrum" during a live ball situation and he had to "T 'em both up". I didn't even bother trying to explain that it couldn't have been a technical because they were live ball contact fouls. That isn't the first time I've had other officials not know the difference between personal/technical.

I agree with you, but I've heard from several usually reliable sources that fouls for fighting are always technical, even if they occur during a live ball. I can't find anything from the NFHS, rule, or casebook play, that proves that, but, rather, from IAABO interpreters, and from sources on this Forum.

Oddly, this thread starter, from a very handsome, and intelligent, Forum member, last month, only generated responses from two esteemed Forum members:

Fighting ???

Discussion?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I agree with you, but I've heard from several usually reliable sources that fouls for fighting are always technical, even if they occur during a live ball. I can't find anything from the NFHS, rule, or casebook play, that proves that, but, rather, from IAABO interpreters, and from sources on this Forum.

Oddly, this thread starter, from a very handsome, and intelligent, Forum member, last month, only generated responses from two esteemed Forum members:

Fighting ???

Discussion?

Fouls for fighting are always Flagrant...they are not always Technical...not sure why people are giving you that incorrect information, but the definitions in Rule 4 are pretty clear.

[fullor30]

Coach Norman Dale?

Originally Posted by zm1283

This is not unusual. I had a partner tell me recently that two kids got into a "scrum" during a live ball situation and he had to "T 'em both up". I didn't even bother trying to explain that it couldn't have been a technical because they were live ball contact fouls. That isn't the first time I've had other officials not know the difference between personal/technical.

I want to make sure I understand the rules correctly. This "scrum" could be called a double (common) foul, but depending on the amount of contact, could be a double (intentional) foul or double (flagrant) for fighting?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

I want to make sure I understand the rules correctly. This "scrum" could be called a double (common) foul, but depending on the amount of contact, could be a double (intentional) foul or double (flagrant) for fighting?

And any combination of the above.