2-man three-point coverage

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

So as lead he did signal three point attempts in his corner (using three fingers, isn't the NFHS signal for a 3PA a full hand?), but he didn't confirm if the shot was made by putting up a second hand? Sounds like FIBA 2-men mechanics to me.

It's 3 fingers in NFHS mechanics.

[Treeguy]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

This past Friday I had a game where my partner (as the lead) would not signal for three-point attempts in his corner (opposite me at trail). Thus, I had no idea what kind of shots were being taken down there, and had no signal to mirror. During a break in play I asked my P to signal those shots as the Lead, but he said he didn't have to.

I had a partner do the same thing. i asked him at halftime about and he said he learned to ref in Texas and that is the way he was taught. I asked him to signal the 3's and he said OK.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

he said he learned to ref in Texas and that is the way he was taught.

Maybe once upon a time but that is not the current teaching.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by ODog

Our interpreter did a nice presentation on this topic in one of our meetings last month.

As Rich said, lead has to signal those attempts in his area. And any time you signal an attempt, you also signal the successful goal.

Trail mirrors the successful-goal signal, but does not have to mirror attempts.

So as the trail, you will signal every successful 3-point goal.

Lead mirrors nothing, as you all know, but you do see a lot of it.

We have been told here that the lead should signal the 3 pt attempt, but not signal the made shot. Only the trail signals the make.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JeroenB

So as lead he did signal three point attempts in his corner (using three fingers, isn't the NFHS signal for a 3PA a full hand?), but he didn't confirm if the shot was made by putting up a second hand? Sounds like FIBA 2-men mechanics to me.

No. The attempt is 3 fingers, the make is second hand up and full hand.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

I know you are talking about HS rules. I went to a D3 game last week. In transition, the Center had an intentional foul (Flagrant 1). The referee (Trail at the time) chewed the Lead official out for not mirroring the intentional foul signal, saying it would have sold the call better. So I guess, in some situations and at some levels, the Lead does mirror signals.

Did the L also have a whistle on the play? If not, then I don't see how signalling it after the fact adds anything. Better, I think, would be a voice "good call, Bob."

NCAAW does sometimes want "confirming whistles" on plays just outside your primary and where you're going to give it up to the primary anyway. It might just be a way to try to stop the "oh we had a double whistle so I'll put my hand down right away" mechanic which does look bad (and which I do all too often).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We have been told here that the lead should signal the 3 pt attempt, but not signal the made shot. Only the trail signals the make.

When in Rome, but that's not the book mechanic.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We have been told here that the lead should signal the 3 pt attempt, but not signal the made shot. Only the trail signals the make.

As T, I don't look to my partner regarding the shot until it is made. Until then, I've got other things to be looking at. I expect to to see the "good" signal. If not, I don't have a signal.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As T, I don't look to my partner regarding the shot until it is made. Until then, I've got other things to be looking at. I expect to to see the "good" signal. If not, I don't have a signal.

Agreed. All we are doing as T is helping relay the information to the table.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We have been told here that the lead should signal the 3 pt attempt, but not signal the made shot. Only the trail signals the make.

That's what we've been told in my little corner of west of the Mississippi but east of the West Coast.

[VaTerp]

I rarely signal for a made 3pt basket as the Lead. Just out of habit from doing mostly 3-man. I put my hand with 3 fingers up on the attempt and then drop it once the shot is clearly missed or made. I will leave it up for a second if I can sense table or partners are looking to see if it was indeed a 3. It has never been an issue but if my partner, the table, or powers that be made it an issue then I wouldnt have a problem adjusting.

The problem I see is usually the other way around. Too many sub-varsity officials ball watching and signaling for 3s on shots way out of their primary.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

That's what we've been told in my little corner of west of the Mississippi but east of the West Coast.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Too many sub-varsity officials ball watching and signaling for 3s on shots way out of their primary.

Amen. +1

[Adam]

I guess I won't complain anymore about partners mirroring from Lead.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As T, I don't look to my partner regarding the shot until it is made. Until then, I've got other things to be looking at.

Neither do I, but when I would look at him his hand would be on its way down. I had to sneak a peek at his signal while the ball was in flight to verify if he signaled a three-point try or not. Obviously that made me look away from my PCA which is bad.