coverage

[scyguy]

Sit A: R1 at first, less than two outs, fly ball hit down right field line. PU's responsibility? I know we have catch/no catch, but we also have R1 advancing to third. Can you do both? If not, BU has runner into third and BR? So BU must watch R1 touch second and get into position to make a call at either third, second or first. Does PU then make sure BR touches first?

Sit B: R1 at second, fly ball in "V". BU lines up tag, NFHS says that PU takes play at third and BU any subsequent play at the plate. Now, I know PU has play at third when we have runners at first and second, but with a runner at second only? It makes more sense for BU to take runner into 3rd, with PU available for subsequent play at plate. Thoughts?

Sit C: R1 at second, R2 at first. I was taught that this would be a PU signaling "staying home". But lets say we have a base hit that allows R1 to score and R2 to advance to third. Were you guys trained as PU to move up and make call at third?

[azscump9]

Sit A: Let partner know you are on the line for catch/no catch fair foul. HE will have R1 responsibilty to 3b. You can watch BR touch but then you must head home for the play at the plate in no catch situation.

Sit B: If runner on 2nd only let BU take R2 to 3rd. He only has one runner after the catch.

Sit C: This is a play that shows the fallacies of the 2-man. PU stays home on ground ball to outfield with R's 1 and 2. BU will have R1 into 3rd as well as any plays that develop on BR. R2 will be responsibilty of PU at the plate.

[bob jenkins]

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No

[scyguy]

Bob, don't strain anything.

AZ,
So in Sit A, BU will have to take R1 into third AND BR rounding first assuming we have a no catch. I have always lined up ball, but made decision of catch/no catch fair/foul from a point near enough to the plate as to where I could still take R1 into third.

Sit B I have dealt with the way you describe, but the NFHS manual wants PU to take play at third.

Sit C I see the same as you. I was taught to "stay home" in this situation. NFHS however wants PU to watch touch at home, but move to cover third.

[scyguy]

3-man, no runners, on a fly ball do you guys use CF to determine which will go out and which will enter infield? Does U3 always enter infield on a base hit?

Usually only get to do 3 man in legion districts once a year, so am trying to refresh memory. I have a tourn Sat and the other two guys want to do 3-man for the tourn.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by scyguy
Bob, don't strain anything.

Thanks for your concern.

I realize in re-reading this thread that you asked 3 questions in the first play. So, my answer should have been:

1) Yes. No. Yes.

That said, you've identified some of the "problems" with the FED mechanics. That's why one (or more) state(s) is/are experimenting with CCA mechanics. It's also why not many around here use the FED mechanics.

[Rich]

Originally posted by scyguy
Bob, don't strain anything.

AZ,
So in Sit A, BU will have to take R1 into third AND BR rounding first assuming we have a no catch. I have always lined up ball, but made decision of catch/no catch fair/foul from a point near enough to the plate as to where I could still take R1 into third.

Sit B I have dealt with the way you describe, but the NFHS manual wants PU to take play at third.

Sit C I see the same as you. I was taught to "stay home" in this situation. NFHS however wants PU to watch touch at home, but move to cover third.

As soon as the FED books arrive, I throw the umpire manual in the trash.

(0) The BU is supposed to take the BR into third on a bases-empty triple, despite what that idiotic book says. One umpire, one runner, one call.

(1) If the PU is on the line, he announces it and the BU has R1 into third.

(2) The BU has the catch, tag, and the play at third. Only exception we usually pregame is if the ball is right down the left field line it makes no sense for the plate umpire to come almost to third to rule on the batted ball and not take the play.

(3) First, the FED notation for runners is idiotic. R1 always starts from first base, R2 from 2nd base, R3 from third base -- so you can just say you have R1 and R2 and less than 2 outs. The plate umpire stays home on a base hit. The only time a plate umpire covers third on a clean hit is with R1 only OR with R1+R3 in which case the PU watches the touch of the plate over his shoulder while sliding up the line in case there's a play at third.

[scyguy]

of course I am concerned Bob. By the way, there was four questions in Sit A. But you have answered my question. Is there a way I can get access to CCA mechanics?

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by scyguy
of course I am concerned Bob. By the way, there was four questions in Sit A. But you have answered my question. Is there a way I can get access to CCA mechanics?

Try Gerry Davis or Honigs. One of 'em sells the book & CD.

[scyguy]

thanks cb, they are on honig's website.

[mikebran]

A: - Yes. (Wrong). NO! Yes. No.
B: - Are there three people in the world that can walk, talk, and chew gum, AND care about the NFHS Mechanics Manual? R2 only. BU has everthing. R1, R2... then, on a "cone" ball... PU can take R2 into 3rd if he TAGS UP.
C: - (editorial comment: "Huh??") Yes, taught right. So? No!

And a FINAL PLEA: PULLEEZZE, the only thing worse than adherence to the FED Mechanics book is this incredibly idiotic nomenclature of R3 on 1st and R2 on 3rd, and my HEAD is gonna explode. Jeez, Looeez, who cares when they got there. EVERYBODY understands that R1 is on 1st base (see the little 1, that's how we know, and R2 is on 2nd base (see the little 2 that is how we know, and R3 is on.. uh, wait, I think I know this.. OH YEAH! THIRD BASE.

Originally posted by scyguy
Sit A: R1 at first, less than two outs, fly ball hit down right field line. PU's responsibility? I know we have catch/no catch, but we also have R1 advancing to third. Can you do both? If not, BU has runner into third and BR? So BU must watch R1 touch second and get into position to make a call at either third, second or first. Does PU then make sure BR touches first?

Sit B: R1 at second, fly ball in "V". BU lines up tag, NFHS says that PU takes play at third and BU any subsequent play at the plate. Now, I know PU has play at third when we have runners at first and second, but with a runner at second only? It makes more sense for BU to take runner into 3rd, with PU available for subsequent play at plate. Thoughts?

Sit C: R1 at second, R2 at first. I was taught that this would be a PU signaling "staying home". But lets say we have a base hit that allows R1 to score and R2 to advance to third. Were you guys trained as PU to move up and make call at third?

[David B]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

As soon as the FED books arrive, I throw the umpire manual in the trash.

(0) The BU is supposed to take the BR into third on a bases-empty triple, despite what that idiotic book says. One umpire, one runner, one call.

(1) If the PU is on the line, he announces it and the BU has R1 into third.

(2) The BU has the catch, tag, and the play at third. Only exception we usually pregame is if the ball is right down the left field line it makes no sense for the plate umpire to come almost to third to rule on the batted ball and not take the play.

(3) First, the FED notation for runners is idiotic. R1 always starts from first base, R2 from 2nd base, R3 from third base -- so you can just say you have R1 and R2 and less than 2 outs. The plate umpire stays home on a base hit. The only time a plate umpire covers third on a clean hit is with R1 only OR with R1+R3 in which case the PU watches the touch of the plate over his shoulder while sliding up the line in case there's a play at third.

We always let the PU take the play at third. It makes it a lot easier for our umpires to remember.

We just like to be consistent. Runner on 2nd, PU takes the play at third.

Plus it gives the PU something to do. (grin)

the only exception would be when the ball is right down the line in RF and PU has to stay for the catch and the foul/fair.

Thanks
David

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by David B
We always let the PU take the play at third. It makes it a lot easier for our umpires to remember.

We just like to be consistent. Runner on 2nd, PU takes the play at third.

So with R2 and R3, or bases loaded, PU takes tha play at third? (I know that's not true, just pointing out that the rule is no more "consistent" than having BU take the play)

Plus it gives the PU something to do. (grin)

That's one of the FED's rationales for some of the mechanics.

the only exception would be when the ball is right down the line in RF and PU has to stay for the catch and the foul/fair.

[David B]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

So with R2 and R3, or bases loaded, PU takes tha play at third? (I know that's not true, just pointing out that the rule is no more "consistent" than having BU take the play)

That's one of the FED's rationales for some of the mechanics.

You're correct, I meant to say lead runner on 2nd.

And I know that's what FED uses so the (grin) comment.

But, the main thing is that everyone is on the same page.

All of our guys usually are, (since I'm the trainer) and it makes it really easy IMO for our younger umpires.

Thanks
David

[Rich]

Originally posted by David B

You're correct, I meant to say lead runner on 2nd.

And I know that's what FED uses so the (grin) comment.

But, the main thing is that everyone is on the same page.

All of our guys usually are, (since I'm the trainer) and it makes it really easy IMO for our younger umpires.

Thanks
David

I got a little frown from my PU partner last night when I lined up a fly ball to left center and turned, put up my hand, and told him, "I have it all." He was already half-way up to cover third. I slid down, was set in the cutout, and made the safe call.

With no trailing runner it makes no sense for the plate umpire to cover third base. Throw to F5 gets through, the plate umpire has to scurry home while the BU has nothing to do.