Game Winner?

[refiator]

Kaelen Riley CHS vs Coosa - YouTube

My understanding is that the officials disallowed the basket. They ruled the first shot a pass, and a backcourt violation killed the shot. Thoughts?

[bainsey]

If I have my facts straight, any "pass" that hits your backboard is considered a shot. Shot > no team control > ball retrieved in the backcourt > legal.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If I have my facts straight, any "pass" that hits your backboard is considered a shot. Shot > no team control > ball retrieved in the backcourt > legal.

That is certainly true in my book. And no, there was no deflection after the "pass"......
Tough call to take the basket away......

[ODog]

I'm OK with the call. I agree it was a pass (albeit a terrible one, though not as bad as it would've been as a shot). It barely hit the bottom of the backboard and there was a teammate on the left w/in a few feet who was likely the intended target.

Knowing the score would help. If they're down 2 or less, it lends more credence to the "pass" theory.

Down 3 obv. helps the "shot" crowd.

I think either side has a case. Judgment call and I've got no prob. with the judgment.

Did everyone else have no volume on this?

[APG]

If I have an untouched thrown ball that hits the backboard or rim, I'm judging it to be a try...then judging everything else accordingly.

[JRutledge]

I would call this a try. Too much to guess otherwise.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If I have my facts straight, any "pass" that hits your backboard is considered a shot. Shot > no team control > ball retrieved in the backcourt > legal.

Not true. While there are situations that seem to imply that, there is no such rule that states that it is so.

If it was a pass, even a bad one, there was no loss of team control and the backcourt violation was correct.

There was clearly plenty of time to get the ball into the frontcourt for a better shot and there was no reason for that guy to be shooting when he had open teammates farther down the court. He released it as a pass so it was a pass.

That kinds of situation is what we get paid for and we have to judge it for what it was, not what we can default to in order to avoid making a tough call. If he was fouled at that moment and the video cut off with the ball in mid-flight I'd bet that a large majority of people wouldn't even consider that it was a shot.

[Rego130]

It doesn't appear they ever established player and team control in the frontcourt. The player threw it from the backcourt.

[ODog]

You don't need player control in the frontcourt.

Though that is the way the rule is worded, that's not what the NFHS means, and you can see that in their Backcourt case plays.

You need player control to have been established inbounds and a ball with frontcourt status. They really need to reword the rule. Very poorly done.

[Terrapins Fan]

If the first "Pass" had gone in would it have counted as a 3 point "Shot"?

Yes.

I've got no BC.

BTW, we are all always being filmed.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true. While there are situations that seem to imply that, there is no such rule that states that it is so.

If it was a pass, even a bad one, there was no loss of team control and the backcourt violation was correct.

I'm struggling to find the case play that states that any ball thrown at and hits your backboard is considered a shot. This is why I have no team control, and therefore, no backcourt in this situation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm struggling to find the case play that states that any ball thrown at and hits your backboard is considered a shot. This is why I have no team control, and therefore, no backcourt in this situation.

The only case play related to this is the one where a player that has ended a dribble can get a new dribble by throwing the ball off the backboard. That implies that there is something going on there but it doesn't go so far as to declare that it is a try...it simply declares that it is legal for that player to dribble again.

It might be inferred from this case that it is to be treated as if it were a try as far as player control goes but it doesn't actually say that. It just says it is legal to dribble again. Even if it did, it may or may not mean that team control also ends. It may just be intended to be an exception to the dribble rules as they related to player control.

Until it is explicitly stated otherwise, the only pass that I'm treating anything like a shot is one that goes in...and that one is only treated as a shot in how many points are scored.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm struggling to find the case play that states that any ball thrown at and hits your backboard is considered a shot.

We've had this discussion before. Can anybody search and find the thread? I've tried without success.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The only case play related to this is the one where a player that has ended a dribble can get a new dribble by throwing the ball off the backboard. That implies that there is something going on there but it doesn't go so far as to declare that it is a try...it simply declares that it is legal for that player to dribble again. It might be inferred from this case that it is to be treated as if it were a try as far as player control goes but it doesn't actually say that. It just says it is legal to dribble again. Even if it did, it may or may not mean that team control also ends. It may just be intended to be an exception to the dribble rules as they related to player control.

Can anybody post this? Please.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true. While there are situations that seem to imply that, there is no such rule that states that it is so.

If it was a pass, even a bad one, there was no loss of team control and the backcourt violation was correct.

There was clearly plenty of time to get the ball into the frontcourt for a better shot and there was no reason for that guy to be shooting when he had open teammates farther down the court. He released it as a pass so it was a pass.

That kinds of situation is what we get paid for and we have to judge it for what it was, not what we can default to in order to avoid making a tough call. If he was fouled at that moment and the video cut off with the ball in mid-flight I'd bet that a large majority of people wouldn't even consider that it was a shot.

Camron,

I agree that officials should decide if it was a pass or throw. But, I think that they have to consider all factors (time left, distance of the throw, path of the throw) and err on the side of a shot. When this play comes up, I also wonder what would have happened if B1 jumped up above the rim and 1 ft. in front of the rim ( i.e. ball had a chance of going in ) and caught the PASS intended for A2? I can see that explanation - "Coach, when that left his hand, I was sure it was a pass"

What is the worst thing that can happen to you if you ALWAYS declare it a shot if it hits the backboard?

[ODog]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

What is the worst thing that can happen to you if you ALWAYS declare it a shot if it hits the backboard?

Team A commits a foul in the scrum for the rebound and loses as a result of free throws that would not have been awarded if it had been a TC foul.

Granted, no one would really consider it controversial since most people would also have considered it a shot. So even that's not a horrible outcome.

My take on the video isn't so much that I would have ruled it a pass (heat of the moment, it'd be a shot in my game too, I think), but when I saw backcourt was the ruling, I thought about it and saw the official's point. And it turned out he was RIGHT (remember, the article with quotes from players and coaches says it was a pass).

So while you may not love the call and would never, under any circumstances, make it yourself, the official was right here, even if he had to go obscure/nitpick/risk public ridicule (which we do nightly anyway) to be so.