Game Winner?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If I have my facts straight, any "pass" that hits your backboard is considered a shot. Shot > no team control > ball retrieved in the backcourt > legal.

Not true. While there are situations that seem to imply that, there is no such rule that states that it is so.

If it was a pass, even a bad one, there was no loss of team control and the backcourt violation was correct.

There was clearly plenty of time to get the ball into the frontcourt for a better shot and there was no reason for that guy to be shooting when he had open teammates farther down the court. He released it as a pass so it was a pass.

That kinds of situation is what we get paid for and we have to judge it for what it was, not what we can default to in order to avoid making a tough call. If he was fouled at that moment and the video cut off with the ball in mid-flight I'd bet that a large majority of people wouldn't even consider that it was a shot.

[Rego130]

It doesn't appear they ever established player and team control in the frontcourt. The player threw it from the backcourt.

[ODog]

You don't need player control in the frontcourt.

Though that is the way the rule is worded, that's not what the NFHS means, and you can see that in their Backcourt case plays.

You need player control to have been established inbounds and a ball with frontcourt status. They really need to reword the rule. Very poorly done.

[Terrapins Fan]

If the first "Pass" had gone in would it have counted as a 3 point "Shot"?

Yes.

I've got no BC.

BTW, we are all always being filmed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

If the first "Pass" had gone in would it have counted as a 3 point "Shot"?

Not back when the NFHS first adapted the three point shot. If, in the judgment of the official, it was indeed a "pass", then it would have counted as only two points. I don't recall that rule, or interpretation, lasting very long.

[JugglingReferee]

I think I'm counting that one.

I forwarded the clip to a friend and he says BC violation.

Either way, it was a very poor pass attempt. And it was a very poor shot attempt.

I think a question to ask is, "does intent have any factor in our ruling", or "does the the mere fact that it hit the backboard make it a shot"?

I think we give the benefit of the doubt and hammer it home.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think I'm counting that one.

I forwarded the clip to a friend and he says BC violation.

Either way, it was a very poor pass attempt. And it was a very poor shot attempt.

I think a question to ask is, "does intent have any factor in our ruling", or "does the the mere fact that it hit the backboard make it a shot"?

I think we give the benefit of the doubt and hammer it home.

That's pretty much where I am. This is a great play for discussion. I would have a hard time disallowing this basket and assuming he was passing the ball, especially since the clock was winding down.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

If the first "Pass" had gone in would it have counted as a 3 point "Shot"?

Yes.

I've got no BC.

BTW, we are all always being filmed.

No. It isn't. I counts as 3 points but no where does it say it is a "shot" or "try".

Rule 5-2-1. A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points.

The fact that they list it as a 3rd option in addition to a try or tap implies that it is not actually a try or a tap. If it was, they would have said that a successful thrown ball is a try and therefore 3 points. But, they don't. It is just declared directly as 3 points without making it a try so none of the other element that related to be being a try come into play.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not true. While there are situations that seem to imply that, there is no such rule that states that it is so.

If it was a pass, even a bad one, there was no loss of team control and the backcourt violation was correct.

I'm struggling to find the case play that states that any ball thrown at and hits your backboard is considered a shot. This is why I have no team control, and therefore, no backcourt in this situation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm struggling to find the case play that states that any ball thrown at and hits your backboard is considered a shot. This is why I have no team control, and therefore, no backcourt in this situation.

The only case play related to this is the one where a player that has ended a dribble can get a new dribble by throwing the ball off the backboard. That implies that there is something going on there but it doesn't go so far as to declare that it is a try...it simply declares that it is legal for that player to dribble again.

It might be inferred from this case that it is to be treated as if it were a try as far as player control goes but it doesn't actually say that. It just says it is legal to dribble again. Even if it did, it may or may not mean that team control also ends. It may just be intended to be an exception to the dribble rules as they related to player control.

Until it is explicitly stated otherwise, the only pass that I'm treating anything like a shot is one that goes in...and that one is only treated as a shot in how many points are scored.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm struggling to find the case play that states that any ball thrown at and hits your backboard is considered a shot.

We've had this discussion before. Can anybody search and find the thread? I've tried without success.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The only case play related to this is the one where a player that has ended a dribble can get a new dribble by throwing the ball off the backboard. That implies that there is something going on there but it doesn't go so far as to declare that it is a try...it simply declares that it is legal for that player to dribble again. It might be inferred from this case that it is to be treated as if it were a try as far as player control goes but it doesn't actually say that. It just says it is legal to dribble again. Even if it did, it may or may not mean that team control also ends. It may just be intended to be an exception to the dribble rules as they related to player control.

Can anybody post this? Please.

[rockyroad]

4.15.4 SITUATION C:

After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent's backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an *official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again.

RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard or an *official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: The action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

Thanks. But this doesn't help because the caseplay calls it a try from the get go.

Some of us want to know if any ball thrown at one's own backboard is always considered a try.

[rockyroad]

9.5 SITUATION:

A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent's backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each.

RULING: Legal in (a); a team's own backboard is considered part of that team's "equipment" and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

[Raymond]

In the first half A2 has 2 dunks on alley oops.

In the 2nd half A1 tries to throw a long alley-oop from 35ft, A2 slips and never jumps, the ball hits the backboard and bounds into the backcourt.

This is a shot?