Where is Palming?

[rekent]

There is an NFHS mechanic for palming the ball, 4-15-4 b says: "The dribble ends when the dribbler palm/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands," and 9-5 lays out when you can begin a dribble again without it being a violation.

Case 4.15.4 A describes a palming situation and says it is a violation, but where in the rules does it specify a "palming" violation rather than an illegal dribble?

I overheard an argument tonight where one official was saying that, strictly by the rulebook, "palming" should actually be double dribble and I found his points rather interesting. I know regardless it is violation and ball goes to the opposing team. This is just a semantic and mechanic issue, but what am I missing in the rulebook?

[jeschmit]

I only have my NCAA books with me, but I know in the signals it specifically shows and illegal dribble violation and a palming/carrying violation (it's the same signal as over and back).

Would that make it two separate violations? I would think so.

[JRutledge]

Signal 21 in the rulebook.

Peace

[rekent]

I know the signal, and I agree by showing both double dribble and palming signals implies they are different violations, but where in the actual text of the rulebook is the differentiation?

[JRutledge]

4-15-4

ART. 4

The dribble ends when:

a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.

d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.

e. The ball becomes dead.

Your friends have too much to worry about.

Peace

[rekent]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Your friends have too much to worry about.

Oh I absolutely agree, and in an attempt to end it I pointed them here, to the signal, and to the case play, but then I got more pushback saying this was "in the double dribble section of the rules."

At that point I walked away... quickly...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rekent

Oh I absolutely agree, and in an attempt to end it I pointed them here, to the signal, and to the case play, but then I got more pushback saying this was "in the double dribble section of the rules."

At that point I walked away... quickly...

It is, strictly speaking, just a specific type of illegal dribble (or travel sometimes), and was added to the rule book at some point to differentiate it.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by Adam

It is, strictly speaking, just a specific type of illegal dribble (or travel sometimes), and was added to the rule book at some point to differentiate it.

So a fair argument would be not only is there no specific "palming" rule, but also no "double dribble?" Both fall under the overall umbrella of illegal dribble, are subject to the same penalty, and it is up to the calling official to recognize/verbalize appropriately and use the correct mechanic.