3 Man Mechanic ?

[Refsmitty]

My partner and I had an association trainer tell us that the C never calls a backcourt violation (during a press from BC to FC).

I need help understanding this - as C during pressure I will generally be at the division line and the trail may be 10-15 steps behind it depending on the dribbler and the pressure.

Had the play last night - 5 feet in front of me - I call the violation and get a wry grin from the T - he later told the coach that yes - it is his call.

I really don't care either way - just looking to get the call right - no matter who calls it.

Thoughts?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

My partner and I had an association trainer tell us that the C never calls a backcourt violation (during a press from BC to FC).

I need help understanding this - as C during pressure I will generally be at the division line and the trail may be 10-15 steps behind it depending on the dribbler and the pressure.

Had the play last night - 5 feet in front of me - I call the violation and get a wry grin from the T - he later told the coach that yes - it is his call.

I really don't care either way - just looking to get the call right - no matter who calls it.

Thoughts?

Refsmitty,
This is something that is good to cover in pre-game. When the ball is in the FRONTCOURT, the Center should not be calling a back court violation as the division line is the trail's "line." When in transition or in a pressing situation, the Center frequently is the one who is in a better position to call a back court violation -- precisely for the reason you mention in your post.

[jeremy341a]

3.3.2f #4 says the center assists trail with division-line violations.

[zm1283]

If the play is coming BC to FC in transition, the C most definitely helps with BC violations.

[JRutledge]

That was an old way of thinking with people just beginning to work 3 person. People that have been teaching and working that system for a rather long time, do not feel that way. It is just like not calling a foul on the ball handler in a press situation because the Trail is watching the ball. It is about angles and positioning and sometimes the Center is just in a better position to see these calls.

Peace

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Refsmitty,
This is something that is good to cover in pre-game. When the ball is in the FRONTCOURT, the Center should not be calling a back court violation as the division line is the trail's "line." When in transition or in a pressing situation, the Center frequently is the one who is in a better position to call a back court violation -- precisely for the reason you mention in your post.

You may want to revisit the official's manual on this one. The "C" should help the trail with division line violations. Even when the ball is in the front court, the "C" has the nearer free-throw lane line extended all the way to the division line. Maybe it's just a local thing that they don't want the "C" to make that call. But technically, the "C" can.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Refsmitty,
When the ball is in the FRONTCOURT, the Center should not be calling a back court violation as the division line is the trail's "line."

A1 is trapped by B1 and B2 above the 3 point arc in the C's PCA. The ball is deflected off A1's knee, and goes into the BC where A2 retrieves the ball.

I hope you can tell me how the T is supposed to make that call.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

A1 is trapped by B1 and B2 above the 3 point arc in the C's PCA. The ball is deflected off A1's knee, and goes into the BC where A2 retrieves the ball.

I hope you can tell me how the T is supposed to make that call.

Easy...C should be the new T by then if the L is paying attention.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Easy...C should be the new T by then if the L is paying attention.

Rotations dont always happen that fast, nor should they when the ball hasn't settled below the FT line. The C HAS to make the call.

Bottom line, there are situations where the C will have to make a BC violation call, even when the ball is in the FC.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Rotations dont always happen that fast, nor should they when the ball hasn't settled below the FT line. The C HAS to make the call.

Bottom line, there are situations where the C will have to make a BC violation call, even when the ball is in the FC.

I know there are different philosophies out there....

Settling below the FT line isn't even part of my thought process when it comes to initiating a rotation. All I care is that the ball and the officials are in the frontcourt.

For example, if a trap happens anywhere on the C's side, I'm rotating as the lead, so the C can take a step out and properly officiate the trap. Likewise, if a player is posting up on the C's side and the ball is anywhere on that side of the court, I'm likely going across. If I wait untiol the ball's passed into the post, I've waited too long.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Rich

I know there are different philosophies out there....

Settling below the FT line isn't even part of my thought process when it comes to initiating a rotation. All I care is that the ball and the officials are in the frontcourt.

For example, if a trap happens anywhere on the C's side, I'm rotating as the lead, so the C can take a step out and properly officiate the trap. Likewise, if a player is posting up on the C's side and the ball is anywhere on that side of the court, I'm likely going across. If I wait untiol the ball's passed into the post, I've waited too long.

Just using common terminology, Rich. Personally, I don't think a trap 5' from the top of the key in the C's PCA warrants a rotation but that's another conversation.

The point is there are situations that can occur where the ball will be in the FC where the C would have to make the BC violation call, not the T.

At least IMO.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Just using common terminology, Rich. Personally, I don't think a trap 5' from the top of the key in the C's PCA warrants a rotation but that's another conversation.

We can have that another time, I suppose. I do disagree with you, but that's not terribly important.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by Rich

I know there are different philosophies out there....

Settling below the FT line isn't even part of my thought process when it comes to initiating a rotation. All I care is that the ball and the officials are in the frontcourt.

For example, if a trap happens anywhere on the C's side, I'm rotating as the lead, so the C can take a step out and properly officiate the trap. Likewise, if a player is posting up on the C's side and the ball is anywhere on that side of the court, I'm likely going across. If I wait untiol the ball's passed into the post, I've waited too long.

In our group of officials, if the C has to start officiating "on ball" there should be an immediate rotation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SAJ

In our group of officials, if the C has to start officiating "on ball" there should be an immediate rotation.

Exactly. Unless the player shoots or drives to the basket and there's inadequate time to get across and in position.

[packersowner]

Amazon.com: Basketball Officiating Mechanics 2 and 3 Person High School Crews: Right Spot at the Right Time (9781582081687): Ken Koester: Books

Page 137 discusses the "center initiated" rotation. For a brief moment, you could probably assume that while C is in transition to the T, they also have to cover the backcourt violation.

I was just reviewing this earlier tonight...good timing.